Roster Numbers Going Select?

Moneypenny wrote: "I have the same problem with teams that have a great tournament then advertise on here Monday morning for 2-3 players."

My guess is that some of the teams who have a great tournament and then advertise for players on Monday are the same teams that used guests to get those good results. Thus, they still need players to permanently fill their roster.

Exactly what it is.. Seen this in league play as well. You will play a team with 4-5 subs and the next day they are looking for 2-3 players??? They use guess players for better results in an attempt to attract permanent players for their team.

What team are you guys talking about? I didn't see anyone that played last weekend looking for 2-3 players, maybe I'm missing something.

https://www.txsoccer.net/t14840-sting-goodman-03-looking

An example...

https://www.txsoccer.net/t15111-liverpool-rase-03-open-practices#159864

Another example

Can only report facts:

Both RASE 03 and Solar Chelsea have posted for players since the Primetime tournament. I could be wrong but I believe that both took second in their respective divisions. RASE is just having "open practice." Solar is specifically posting for 2-3 guests for this weeekend. They had 4-5 on the bench last weekend so apparently 2-3 of these players are not rostered for this weekend...

Thanks. I knew RASE and Sting G had posted something about open practices (seriously though, aren't all practices are open right now) a couple of weeks ago but as far as I know neither one used any guests this weekend. At least no one has complained about it so that leads me to believe they were pretty pure last weekend. I honestly don't know anyone on Solar Chelsea so I'd hate to speculate about what they are looking for or who they had on their roster last weekend.

I stick by my original comment though, now is the time for people to look around and I don't blame the teams for looking as well. For as many horror stories I've heard of kids not making a team they thought they would make, I've heard just as many stories about kids that magically vanish a week or two before signing day only to reappear on a different team. So it's a tough sitaution for all parties involved. So as a parent you need to have a Plan B and as a coach you need to have a Plan B as well.

Someone said it well earlier, the last thing you want to do is hold onto the hope that your DD will get more playing time when they go select. If you aren't starting or seeing the field for more than 10-15 minutes, start looking now. For some kids being 15th on the roster and getting 10 minutes a game but getting to play with their friends is worth it, however for others it can drive them from the game. Parents have to know their DD's and do what they think is best for them.

I can understand what you are saying SolarPower, why tinker with something that seems to be having success, however who knows what the goal is on each of these teams as far as what they are looking to accomplish out of getting girls to their practices. I mean 6 months ago all we ever heard about was Solar Gio and how good they were going to be and then "poof" they up an vanished like a fart in the wind once everyone figured out they weren't going to make the top team. That team came together based on them coming out to SRSA A practices so maybe some of these teams are simply looking to start another team prior to select. I've honestly given up trying to figure out what everyone is doing and just enjoy listening to all the conversations people had after tournmant weekends. Makes me not have to watch TV at work to get my drama for the day.

I agree with you GrandTxSoccer
I hope parents read your comments about playing time....a back up plan is always a good idea this time of year. I appreciate you agreeing with me but my main goal was to get my new, righteous avatar some more exposure

It is glorious

Someone posted on an earlier thread that "there is only one winner". My guess is, that if that wasn't your dd's team last weekend, then your dd's coach is looking.

my main goal was to get my new, righteous avatar some more exposure

You also slipped in a nice Shawshank quote. Well played.

Blank77 wrote:

silentparent wrote:

03soccermomtx wrote:Heard a story of a player on signing day have the contract that was promised to them for weeks being handed to the player standing right next to them at the clubs big signing day event even after being told all along they had a spot. That is cruel and unusual punishment for a 10 year old.

Thats terrible. No one should be at signing day who is not going to be signed imo. These are children after all...

There is a reason this is a story someone heard, this type of stuff is rare and doesn't happen at the signing party.

IMO it is rare, but horrible when it happens. Saw it happen a few years ago. It was clear there were too many girls invited to a signing party. They were invited on purpose and the team manager confirmed this was on purpose as the coach wanted to give all the new prospects a last look. The team manager was nervous as she walked around with some packets. The coach held a practice, just taking his last look. At the end of this practice, he gave the manager the nod and several girls did not get packets. Not only did these girls not get their offer, it was EXTREMELY public. Add humiliation to the trauma of being dumped at the last minute with no team. I haven't thought much of this coach since this incident and he is still out there.

MaggieMaggie wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

silentparent wrote:

03soccermomtx wrote:Heard a story of a player on signing day have the contract that was promised to them for weeks being handed to the player standing right next to them at the clubs big signing day event even after being told all along they had a spot. That is cruel and unusual punishment for a 10 year old.

Thats terrible. No one should be at signing day who is not going to be signed imo. These are children after all...

There is a reason this is a story someone heard, this type of stuff is rare and doesn't happen at the signing party.

IMO it is rare, but horrible when it happens. Saw it happen a few years ago. It was clear there were too many girls invited to a signing party. They were invited on purpose and the team manager confirmed this was on purpose as the coach wanted to give all the new prospects a last look. The team manager was nervous as she walked around with some packets. The coach held a practice, just taking his last look. At the end of this practice, he gave the manager the nod and several girls did not get packets. Not only did these girls not get their offer, it was EXTREMELY public. Add humiliation to the trauma of being dumped at the last minute with no team. I haven't thought much of this coach since this incident and he is still out there.

What if, instead of it being called a "signing party", it was called a "tryout", and at the end of the "tryout", the coach either posted a list of the players who made the team on a bulletin board, or called the group together and announced who the players were who had made the team? Would that change how we view this?

That's how it was done when I was a kid. Sometimes I made the team and was very excited, some times I got cut and had to learn to live with the sudden disappointment. In some cases the coach took the time to deliver the news in person and in private, in some cases, it was a simple "if you didn't hear your name called, we still appreciate you coming out, work hard and try again next year."

I think the problem was when someone came up with then Einsteinian idea to call the whole thing a "party", and to hold the event anywhere other than a soccer practice field.

MaggieMaggie wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

silentparent wrote:

03soccermomtx wrote:Heard a story of a player on signing day have the contract that was promised to them for weeks being handed to the player standing right next to them at the clubs big signing day event even after being told all along they had a spot. That is cruel and unusual punishment for a 10 year old.

Thats terrible. No one should be at signing day who is not going to be signed imo. These are children after all...

There is a reason this is a story someone heard, this type of stuff is rare and doesn't happen at the signing party.

IMO it is rare, but horrible when it happens. Saw it happen a few years ago. It was clear there were too many girls invited to a signing party. They were invited on purpose and the team manager confirmed this was on purpose as the coach wanted to give all the new prospects a last look. The team manager was nervous as she walked around with some packets. The coach held a practice, just taking his last look. At the end of this practice, he gave the manager the nod and several girls did not get packets. Not only did these girls not get their offer, it was EXTREMELY public. Add humiliation to the trauma of being dumped at the last minute with no team. I haven't thought much of this coach since this incident and he is still out there.

That coach needs to be outed

bwgophers wrote:

MaggieMaggie wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

silentparent wrote:

03soccermomtx wrote:Heard a story of a player on signing day have the contract that was promised to them for weeks being handed to the player standing right next to them at the clubs big signing day event even after being told all along they had a spot. That is cruel and unusual punishment for a 10 year old.

Thats terrible. No one should be at signing day who is not going to be signed imo. These are children after all...

There is a reason this is a story someone heard, this type of stuff is rare and doesn't happen at the signing party.

IMO it is rare, but horrible when it happens. Saw it happen a few years ago. It was clear there were too many girls invited to a signing party. They were invited on purpose and the team manager confirmed this was on purpose as the coach wanted to give all the new prospects a last look. The team manager was nervous as she walked around with some packets. The coach held a practice, just taking his last look. At the end of this practice, he gave the manager the nod and several girls did not get packets. Not only did these girls not get their offer, it was EXTREMELY public. Add humiliation to the trauma of being dumped at the last minute with no team. I haven't thought much of this coach since this incident and he is still out there.

What if, instead of it being called a "signing party", it was called a "tryout", and at the end of the "tryout", the coach either posted a list of the players who made the team on a bulletin board, or called the group together and announced who the players were who had made the team? Would that change how we view this?

That's how it was done when I was a kid. Sometimes I made the team and was very excited, some times I got cut and had to learn to live with the sudden disappointment. In some cases the coach took the time to deliver the news in person and in private, in some cases, it was a simple "if you didn't hear your name called, we still appreciate you coming out, work hard and try again next year."

I think the problem was when someone came up with then Einsteinian idea to call the whole thing a "party", and to hold the event anywhere other than a soccer practice field.

frankly that's crap. the coach KNOWS who he will take, he is just being an ahole.....

silentparent wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

MaggieMaggie wrote:

Blank77 wrote:

silentparent wrote:

03soccermomtx wrote:Heard a story of a player on signing day have the contract that was promised to them for weeks being handed to the player standing right next to them at the clubs big signing day event even after being told all along they had a spot. That is cruel and unusual punishment for a 10 year old.

Thats terrible. No one should be at signing day who is not going to be signed imo. These are children after all...

There is a reason this is a story someone heard, this type of stuff is rare and doesn't happen at the signing party.

IMO it is rare, but horrible when it happens. Saw it happen a few years ago. It was clear there were too many girls invited to a signing party. They were invited on purpose and the team manager confirmed this was on purpose as the coach wanted to give all the new prospects a last look. The team manager was nervous as she walked around with some packets. The coach held a practice, just taking his last look. At the end of this practice, he gave the manager the nod and several girls did not get packets. Not only did these girls not get their offer, it was EXTREMELY public. Add humiliation to the trauma of being dumped at the last minute with no team. I haven't thought much of this coach since this incident and he is still out there.

What if, instead of it being called a "signing party", it was called a "tryout", and at the end of the "tryout", the coach either posted a list of the players who made the team on a bulletin board, or called the group together and announced who the players were who had made the team? Would that change how we view this?

That's how it was done when I was a kid. Sometimes I made the team and was very excited, some times I got cut and had to learn to live with the sudden disappointment. In some cases the coach took the time to deliver the news in person and in private, in some cases, it was a simple "if you didn't hear your name called, we still appreciate you coming out, work hard and try again next year."

I think the problem was when someone came up with then Einsteinian idea to call the whole thing a "party", and to hold the event anywhere other than a soccer practice field.

frankly that's crap. the coach KNOWS who he will take, he is just being an ahole.....

If the "event" was advertised as a "signing party" and families were given the impression beforehand that if they showed up, they were being offered a spot on the team and a contract, then yes, I agree with you 100%.

However, if the event was advertised as a "tryout" and families were told that at the end of the tryout, the team would be announced, and those that made the team were expected to stay after to handle paperwork and make initial payments, then it would have been just like the competitive team tryouts I went to as a kid.

The situation being discussed here is actully a logical consequence from the system we have in place for youth sports in NTX these days. "Select" really isn't "selective". It's a free-market, free-for-all system. Anybody can put together a team and call it a "select" team. There are no population based limits on the number of teams that can be formed, and no geographical restrictions to where your players can come from. Again, when I was kid, the "select" teams were part of the municipality. How many kids a municipality had participating in their city/town leagues, determined how many "select" teams they were allowed to have. The board of the city/town league appointed the "select" coaches, and if you didn't reside in that city/town, you couldn't play for that city/town's select team.

Now, the "good" part of that system, was that it restricted access to "select" teams to the point where usually, the team didn't have to worry about "making numbers".

The "bad" parts of that system, were that people had limited choice. You were stuck with the coach from your town, whether or not he/she was any good as a coach and/or as a person for that matter. If the next town over had a "select" coach that was a great coach and could help develop your kid to play in HS/College/beyond, you were locked out of having access to that coach, unless you up and moved your family.

So, now we have in place what we have in NTX today (not just in Soccer, but in most of the other youth sports as well... football, baseball, softball, volleyball, swimming). Pretty much anyone can call themselves a coach and put together a "select" team, and as long as parents are willing to drive, and willing to spend money, they can take their kid to play for any "select" team that will have them. There are more than enough entities willing to organize and put on "select" leagues and tournaments.

The "good" about this, is that the cream will truly rise to the top in this scenario. Great coaches and organizations are free to evolve and grow, and can truly "select" the top talent from a wide geographic area. The parents of the best athletes are free to seek out the best coaching available for their kids starting at young ages, and aren't restricted by geographic boundaries or rules.

The "bad" about this, is that since there is no limit on the total number of "select" teams, the market gets over saturated with teams to the point where the talent gets spread very thin and many teams are struggling to find enough players. As a result you get this horrible cat-and-mouse dance between coaches and families leading up to signing day. If a coach says "hey, I'm going to invite 20 kids to our tryout on July 1st, and 16 will make the team. I'll let everyone know who those 16 are after practice on the 1st", he/she knows that if there are 8 or 9 kids on the bubble fighting for the last 4 slots, the system allows for all 8 or 9 of those kids to go to any other team in NTX. The coach could end up with a situation where all 8 or 9 families decide they don't want to chance the uncertainty, go elsewhere, and NONE of them show up on July 1st. Suddenly, that coach is left with 11 or 12 and is scrambling to find players for the team to make period.

I'm not saying that one system is better than the other. I'm saying that there are pros and cons to both systems. Unfortunately, one of the cons to the current system, is that you will get clubs, coaches, and parents that are all less than forthcoming , because they system allows for it to be that way with minimal negative consequence, and as a result, many feel that is in their own best interest to act that way. If you want to eliminate it, then you have to change the system to be more restrictive and/or regulated, but then be prepared to deal with the cons that come along with such a system.

Someone pointed out that Sting Goodman won the tournament in Austin but posted they are still looking for players.... Both are true but the facts are we have one player moving out of the country and one of our players is an 04.... so yes we are looking for good reason as to fill our roster!!

No the email was clearly a welcome to the team. Come to our signing party. It was held at an indoor athletic facility more known for basketball than soccer. There had been several try out practices before this where girls were turned away. Some girls had to run to their cars/have parents run to get tennis shoes when it became clear they were going to practice. I saw on the email too many girls were invited but some girls/parents did not realize it until they arrived. I questioned the manager after we received the email and she was evasive. We were new to the system back then. I would know better now. Yes, my dd was one of them. Good thing for us a team we liked that was just way too far away had made her an offer and that's where she went. Had we not had this fall back, would have had 1 day to find a new team. All good though because I know this coach ended up putting this team through the ringer.

I would be very concerned if new girls are coming out and also very concerned if they are not coming out.

My recommendation is to find a team where your daughter is somewhere between 3-8 on the depth chart. This guarantees mucho playing time and most likely around similarly talented players. If she is top player than she may want to look for more new friends. If she is bottom player she may need different friends also.

Zidane wrote:I would be very concerned if new girls are coming out and also very concerned if they are not coming out.

My recommendation is to find a team where your daughter is somewhere between 3-8 on the depth chart. This guarantees mucho playing time and most likely around similarly talented players. If she is top player than she may want to look for more new friends. If she is bottom player she may need different friends also.

Frankly at this time of the year you will always have new kids coming out. Thats the nature of competitive soccer. It is a stark reminder that this a talent based competitive environment and kids need to know that....

I would be very concerned if new girls are coming out and also very concerned if they are not coming out.

This means?

I would be concerned if new girls are coming out because they might be better than my DD?

I would be concerned if no new girls are coming out because that means my DD's team is not worth checking out?

Just checking.

Yes and Yes.

My 00 DD was top DII team heading into LHGCL QT with minimal new players coming out(good for existing team with players on fence; however, bad for parents that wanted to see more talent show up)

My 03 DD is TOP DI team and the new player tryout/frequency is exhausting. (good for parents who want to see more talent; however, bad for players on the fence)

My last piece of advice is...find a team where your DD is starting...spending $2500+ dollars to watch is kind of pricey.

I think minutes are more important than starting especially at younger ages. On another note, there will be the kid that everyone assumes will be playing select who quits altogether. Thats what new players are there for to give the coach the ability to field the best team, which in the season will make everybody happier theoretically...

My last piece of advice is...find a team where your DD is starting...spending $2500+ dollars to watch is kind of pricey.

This brings up a great point- no one wants to pay that much money and not start, but each team needs a roster of 14. So it must be OK for some girls to be non-starters? Who are those girls and why should their parents settle for being on the bench?

SteveHolt! wrote:

My last piece of advice is...find a team where your DD is starting...spending $2500+ dollars to watch is kind of pricey.

This brings up a great point- no one wants to pay that much money and not start, but each team needs a roster of 14. So it must be OK for some girls to be non-starters? Who are those girls and why should their parents settle for being on the bench?

Thats kind of a loaded question. Depends on the coach. Some coach's starting lineup is like a holy grail. Others rotate frequently so its no big deal. Depends on the coach. I would always say that a coach should not take a kid who cant play and stick them on the bench but unfortunately on many teams the quality drops off significantly from starters to kids on the bench...

SteveHolt! wrote:

My last piece of advice is...find a team where your DD is starting...spending $2500+ dollars to watch is kind of pricey.

This brings up a great point- no one wants to pay that much money and not start, but each team needs a roster of 14. So it must be OK for some girls to be non-starters? Who are those girls and why should their parents settle for being on the bench?

Every team needs subs or "bench players". Every bench player has the opportunity to improve and move into a starting role. Sometimes being a bench player lights a competitive fire. At 10, just make sure practices are quality and make expectations known that your DD is there to compete. Above all BE REALISTIC!!! (see a theme here?)

silentparent wrote:I think minutes are more important than starting especially at younger ages. On another note, there will be the kid that everyone assumes will be playing select who quits altogether. Thats what new players are there for to give the coach the ability to field the best team, which in the season will make everybody happier theoretically...

Very true, have heard about the team where the best players decided she wanted to do cheerleading or dance etc instead of select soccer. Also be sure your team is not centered around that great forward to be successfull so if that player leaves, the team will still be OK. Sometimes, the #1 player on a team leave to go to another team right before signing as well.

you never know what will happen.