Seeking wisdom from older DD parents

First of all, I signed up under a new username to protect my DD's anonymity, not to bash other specific parents, players or coaches. But we have some questions about our daughter's possible future in NTX soccer and would appreciate all helpfully candid responses.

Our DD is an '01. She is not a superstar, but a good addition to any D1 team seeking a solid contributor. We've visited three different clubs between Academy and Select, she has guest played with several others and loves to play the game. Here is our dilemma - she also enjoys other sports and activities and also wants to have time to spend with her friends, "just hanging out". LHGCL D1 coaches, in our limited experience, seem to demand total commitment to just this one sport by both the DD and her family. To help us figure some things out, we would appreciate responses to the following questions:

Is there a D1 coach willing to accept a quality player with supportive parents and be understanding about her other
activities? That includes missing some practices and games, because her other select sport and academic interests also have extensive time requirements? Or is that a pipe dream??

Why is the pressure so intense for 11/12 year-old girls anyway, when the landscape of talent will surely change once all these DDs become adolescents? And why isn't the well-rounded development of these young ladies a higher priority than winning? Are the coaches' incentives only tied to winning?

Must there be so much player movement and parental angst each year near contract date? Is it healthy to move the players around so much, to have them living in constant fear that they will lost their spot if the coach finds another player just a little bit quicker (stronger, bigger, more skillful) than they are? What about commitment to developing players, keeping the sport enjoyable so the DDs continue to play? Another pipe dream, perhaps??

Is there any correlation between the girls who play D1/ODP/ENCL and those who earn collegiate scholarships to top schools?

Are crazy, intense, over-the-top competitive parents just a cost of being involved with competitive youth sports? Does it get better the older the girls become? Do the DDs of these rabid parents actually succeed in the long run? Success in the long run defined as playing collegiate soccer for a reputable school, obtaining a useful college degree and maintaining a damage-free sense of self.

Same question for the scheming, uber-political parents who are always attempting to undermine some other player's position to better their own DD's.

Why don't these parents see the end-result woman waiting at the end of all their shenanigans? It is clear to us that these girls will likely grow into women who become undesirable as spouses, friends and parents. Or are we the delusional ones??

For those that know of such a success story, would you be willing to share details? Perhaps help us to create a road map??

Is taking a year off really so detrimental to a DD's soccer progression? From what we see, the number of injuries is increasing, so those DDs are taking time off whether they want to or not, to allow their bodies to heal. Does that mean their soccer career is doomed?

And last question, if there are any responders that have older daughters, say mid- to late-twenties, does the chronic wear on their bodies through competitive soccer impact them later? Are there preventive measures with proven results? For example, does that helmet work to prevent or decrease the severity of head injuries?

Now, we hope that we get lots of helpful responses, even if the opinions are vastly different. Even crazy, helter-skelter responses will provide much-needed comedic relief, so bring them on! If there are issues that are important, but not raised by our questions, we'd appreciate those insights as well. We look forward to a lively discussion!!

It is a little hard to respond to so many questions, but I tried to number them in the order of your post.

1. There probably aren't many D1 teams that don't require total comittment. This comttment doesn't mean the parents are over the top, it just means they are comitted to Soccer as #1 priority. There are plenty of good teams, great coaches that aren't in D1 that would love to have your DD and will tolerate some practices due to outside activity. Games may be another story, if soccer truly isnt your top priority and you are going to miss a game for cheer, I would start looking at PPL teams.

2. The intense pressure at 12 is relative. It depends on the goals of the team and your sensitivity to competition. In LH, the pressure is intense due to threat of relegation and the overall need to have a competitive product to keep the girls happy. There are teams that don't put winning first, you can find them in PPL - probably rare at this point in LH. I would say 90% of the coaches in LH are looking both to win and develop - you have to have both.

3. I'm not sure how much player movement there will actually be. I would say most teams will keep their core and the players looking are obviously looking everywhere. This is human nature, people are out there looking for a better spot. Any player who doesn't believe they are being used right, playing enough, or have changed their priorities should be looking - nothing wrong with this.

4. The correlation between ODP/ECNL/LH and college scholarship has more to do with the fact that the best talent plays in those leagues and the best talent gets scholarships. If your DD is good enough, it really doesn't matter where you play - she would get found, but playing in the best leagues against the best girls is the easiest way to get exposure.

5. I would say competitive parents raise competitive kids. It isn't crazy, last I checked, the doormat people aren't the ones running the world and making money. Are there some that are out of touch, sure, but by u13, most everyone I meet on the top LH teams are pretty well grounded. I don't see parents undemining other DDs, most coaches don't listen to the parents at any point, but yes political people are out there politicing, just like at work, school, and everywhere else. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they do not.

6. Saying the competitive,policitical minded girls will not be desirable spouses is effin retarded. Not sure your motive for this statement, but you are the delusional one if you think pushing competitive girls in sports makes them undesireable later - and if you thing politickin and caniving is a curse of just competitive soccer - you are out of touch and havent been to a middle school, high school, office, or PTA meeting.

7. Taking a year off at this age is tough, but not always a deal breaker. My DD took time off last summer and this spring and if anything it made her better. Although she played other sports, kept in shape, and always continued to work on her soccer. She has renewed fire and is excited about the upcoming season now.

8. First hand, playing soccer (any sport) puts wear and tear on your body. I know plenty of adults with lingering issues from their days of youth competitive sports. Most continue to play sports as adults and just deal with it and they enjoy the competition. Usually if you are competitive as a youth that doesn't go away. Now, on the flip side, sitting on your ass eating chips and having fat kids is probably worse. If your goal is only the long term physical well being of your DD - I would stay away from soccer (and cheer, dance, basketball, volleyball, and pretty much anything that over stresses the body). Maybe try yoga and a treadmill - well a treadmill on low.

I think the answer to your questions lies with your DD! How would she answer the questions you ask? Ultimately, with a little guidance from you, what will be the best for her is what does she want?

Just hanging out is not something we encourage at our house. I would recommend a division 2!team that would gladly allow her to play and practice.

North Texas soccer is very insensitive towards the needs and developement of young players. The twins at City Futsal would be a place she could develope and maintain her skills while having a flexible schedule.

ODP/d1/ECNL, players are not the only players that receive scholarships. These programs just seem to give a player more exposure and competition over time.

My DD is not in her late twenties,so the other questions I will leave to another poster.

It is interesting to note that you mention LHGCL D1 multiple times throughout your post... Are you sure you are not one of those "crazy, intense, over-the-top competitive parents"? There are over 80 "select" teams that I am aware of and there are many coaches who will allow girls at this age to focus on more than one sport or have other interests (like academics). I am also certain that there are many teams where parents are not "crazy, intense, and over-the-top." I suspect that if you escape LHGCL D1, you will find what you are looking for.

OffTheBeatenPath wrote:Is there a D1 coach willing to accept a quality player with supportive parents and be understanding about her other activities? That includes missing some practices and games, because her other select sport and academic interests also have extensive time requirements? Or is that a pipe dream??

If the coach is desperate to fill a roster, then yes, most coaches will agree to this. That's a lot more likely to happen on a team outside of D1 though. Most D1 teams will have similar options to offer contracts to that will make soccer their #1 priority. The only other reason a coach would make this offer is just to get your money from you to cover a scholarship player.

If you did get a coach to agree to this, I'd still be wary. While the coach may be accomodating at first, the honeymoon period will quickly come to an end. The coach will quickly tire of your DD regularly skipping practices and she'll soon find herself anchored to the bench. (Coaches are humans afterall with real human emotions.)

OffTheBeatenPath wrote:Here is our dilemma - she also enjoys other sports and activities and also wants to have time to spend with her friends

Have you considered moving your DD to a team, regardless of division, that already houses a couple of friends from her school/neighborhood? You'd kill two bird with one stone. She'd get to keep playing soccer and she'd get to "just hang out" at the same time. It might make soccer even more fun for her. If she becomes a star for the team, she may even become more popular in her friends' eyes.

"Jack of all trades, master of none"

You will get out of soccer what you put into it. A part time, kick the ball here and there player will be just that. Kids don't have to be athletes. They can hang out with their friends, have fun, try lots of different activities. But then don't expect them to go on to college, get a scholorship, and play at top level. College athletics will require way more dedication and sacrifice than select. Don't expect that a dedicated top select team full of dedicated focused players would be accepting of her lack of those qualities. She is not broken and neither are they. Just find a team that suits her level of play and dedication.

Thank you all for the responses so far. And I am very pleased that some of my favorites of the prolific posters have weighed in so quickly!!

Just to clarify, my daughter competes in two demanding sports at select level, including travel. In addition, she plays in the band and maintains straight As.

Jae, you've actually hit the nail on the head. I am a reformed "crazy, intense, over-the-top competitive" parent - at least I am trying to be. I would like to find the right balance to encouraging competitive behavior while keeping my children well-rounded.

Blank77, the crazy parental behavior I complain about is not limited to soccer. To be truthful, most parents are reasonable, but the toxic ones seem to cause bigger-than-life-sized impact to their sideline and have children who behave the same way. I did not mean to say that competitive, politically-minded girls will not become desirable spouses. On the contrary, such girls should be successful in most areas. I meant to say that mean people, those whose self-esteem is high only when they are belittling someone else or who are constantly scheming against their teammates will not become desirable spouses. I don't think that is being delusional or out of touch.

BigTex, you are also right about being wary if a coach promises to be accommodating during the honeymoon period. Found that out first hand...

One other thing - I was able to play at a competitive (club) level in several sports up until high school when I had to make a commitment to one in order to stay in top form. Optimally, I would like this for my children as well, but I am becoming discouraged that it is possible. Side note, I should probably not post in the middle of the night when I am brooding, because after reading my words again, I sounded just a wee bit whiny! Well, maybe a lot...

First of all, Blank gave some great responses to your questions.

I want to point out is that between the ages of 12 to 15 (both girls and boys) is the time when school sports really become an option for young people. Add expanding social lives and the recognition of the opposite sex. This is the time for young people to start experimenting with what they like and don’t like. Band, choir, basketball, cheer, line dancing (oh wait that was my college extra-curricular activity), etc., etc.

Now, I am going to use a quote from one of my DD’s former coaches. “Some players want to play soccer, while others want to be a soccer player.” That to me is the defining key to it all. There are girls who love to go out on the field and play in a game because it is a fun thing to do. For other girls, soccer is a passion, and as needed as oxygen. Is there anything wrong with any of these players? No, but the problem is that select soccer, at the higher level, requires dedication to practice sessions, games and extra work. It can engender a bit of resentment from other players if some team mates put everything else before soccer. This isn’t to say that girls can’t play other sports or have a social life along with select soccer. It just takes more to do it. If you are looking to stay on a D1 team, the expectations are greater there than they would be on a DII or DII or PPL team. Even DII and DIII teams can have their limits if a player has signed up for every sport offered at school along with band, cheer, choir, competitive baking, select checkers, etc., etc.

If your coach is the right kind of coach, he or she will want to see progress in your daughter as well as the team. That is why he or she is a coach. Secondly, they want to see the team improve because that means they are doing their job. It is difficult to do either one if your daughter is constantly away (no matter how fit she may stay as a result of playing other sports). Yes, winning does have a part in the whole process.

As to player movement, in select soccer there are a number of reasons for player movement. 1) Parents want their player only on the best of the best teams. 2) Teams fall apart. 3) Coaching style issues. 4) The need to progress. Players outgrow teams, underachieve on teams, outgrow coaches, etc. Contract angst is always a part of select soccer.

Keeping the game enjoyable for a player has to come first from the player. If they aren’t enjoying the game, you need to ask them why. Are they burned out? Do they still want to play or is it that you still want them to play? Too often, we parents push our children to do things that they only do to please us. So we need to put on our adult pants and allow our children to say no if that is what they want.
If a player wants to make it to a major college, then playing in Lake Highlands and/or ECNL (or other like organization) need to be a part of their soccer career. Yes, think resume! Will every girl who is just a good contributor and not a standout player be able to go to a top school? The likelihood is no – at least on a soccer scholarship. However, there are many second and third tier colleges who can offer her a great education and a chance to play soccer at the collegiate level. Think of it like college acceptance in general. The better your academic standing is the better your chance of making it to a top ranked school. Same in sports, the higher level you play, the better chances are for a Tier One college scholarship.

Competitive soccer just like recreational soccer can cause injuries, but then so can mowing a lawn. Injuries happen in every sport and outside of sports. We have no guarantees that we won’t get broken bones, pulled muscles, torn ligaments just mowing a lawn (trust me I know). Runners, basketball players, volleyball players, baseball players, football players, and tennis players can all sustain injuries.
On the head protector, there are two positions on that. Some believe that it does help reduce the impact to the head. Others (players who had concussions) used it and still had concussions. Why did they? Because they said it made them feel like they could take more risks which led to further concussions.

Bottom line on this conversation is this. If your daughter just likes playing sports in general and you want her to experience everything she can (which is admirable) then let her enjoy school sports instead of select play. That way she can experience the fun of playing with friends from school without the added pressure of select. Just like college isn’t for everyone, neither is select soccer.

InaB wrote: ...offered at school along with band, cheer, choir, competitive baking, select checkers, etc., etc.

That explains a lot.....

FYI, I am the undefeated, the uncontested, the sheik of smack, the king of whack, the regal and reigning champion of select checkers, there are no equals!
I'll bring my board to the next game

Choke, Gasp! Just spewed coffee all over my monitor!

InaB, Blank always gives great responses and is one of my top three favorite posters. I also thank you for your insightful response. We will figure this out eventually and are only feeling frustrated right now...

Hi there, I understand. We all want the best for our children. If we don't care for them, who will? Best of luck.

I seldom chime in on things. So I thought I could give my dd's unique perspective to this. My dd played up last year with the 00's . It was their first year for most of them to play middle school sports. Once into the first session ( volleyball ) we saw fewer and fewer kids at each practice. In the beginning it would be 2 or 3 kids missing but by the time we got to say November we would average 6-8 kids at each session. This really reduces what a coach can do with the squad . Needless to say that during what I call the technical & recovery season ( December - the first of February ) , neither happened . By seasons end we actually looked worse than when we started.
I know this is probably an extreme example, but it is why I would be hesitant to make those kind of deals as a coach . In short he can't look at each kid and say you can and you can't . So the coaches that have been around for a while know that it will spread like a virus.
Then there is the group of dedicated dd's that will get short changed from the higher intensity of training when these other kids are absent. There parents feel slighted because after all they payed the whole price and received less than an acceptable product. Perspective is always unique to ones vantage point you just need to see it from where others stand.

Hi Eastside, good points. I have seen it happen to a lot of teams this past year. My DD and I had a major discussion about school sports at the beginning of the fall season. I asked her what she really wanted to do. She told me she loved soccer and wanted to focus on that. So then I asked her what school sport would help her be a better soccer player. She considered every sport the school offered. Then she said she loved running and track would help her be a better soccer player and it would minimally impact her practices and games. (Unfortunately she sustained a major ankle injury so we didn't get to try this out this year.)

I would say at least 50 percent of the girls playing soccer do it for the love of the game and wanting to be a "soccer player."

I think it does make an impact on the team as a whole when you have players who barely make practice and miss games for school sports. For those parents who dutifully drive their daughters to every practice and every game, it can be very frustrating. The level of play does drop because players are not as ready due to missed practice. Teams have played short handed because players are out for other sports at the same time other players are sick or injured.

There just isn't any easy way to deal with it, unless your coach has another team where the player can make up the practice time. It isn't the same as practicing with your team, but at least it is practice.

On one hand, you are paying the same as everyone else so if you don't want your daughter to take full advantage of every training opportunity, that is ultimately your decision. However, keep in mind that All the other parents on your team are paying the same amount for good results. Put yourself in their place and you took your DD to every practice and every game, hot, cold and in between.

Then watch a game where some players are just not quite in step with everyone. You know that they haven't attended practice regularly. You know that they are bringing down the level of play. Would you think, "what am I paying for? My daughter can improve 200 percent but if the team doesn't it won't help her." A team is only as strong as its weakest link.

Again, you are the parent so it is up to you and your DD as to what she should do. Just keep in mind that if she isn't that best player on the team who comes out week after week playing at the top of her game, it will be harder for people to cut her slack.

I think having your DD happy should be your number one goal. If you and your DD want to explore all there is in school sports, etc., then go for it. But if you have her in Select Soccer, you may need to make a choice and perhaps move her to a PPL team or sign her up for her school soccer team. High school soccer teams are a great way to go for a multi-sport player once she is at that age.

InaB wrote:Hi Eastside, good points. I have seen it happen to a lot of teams this past year. My DD and I had a major discussion about school sports at the beginning of the fall season. I asked her what she really wanted to do. She told me she loved soccer and wanted to focus on that. So then I asked her what school sport would help her be a better soccer player. She considered every sport the school offered. Then she said she loved running and track would help her be a better soccer player and it would minimally impact her practices and games. (Unfortunately she sustained a major ankle injury so we didn't get to try this out this year.)

I would say at least 50 percent of the girls playing soccer do it for the love of the game and wanting to be a "soccer player."

I think it does make an impact on the team as a whole when you have players who barely make practice and miss games for school sports. For those parents who dutifully drive their daughters to every practice and every game, it can be very frustrating. The level of play does drop because players are not as ready due to missed practice. Teams have played short handed because players are out for other sports at the same time other players are sick or injured.

There just isn't any easy way to deal with it, unless your coach has another team where the player can make up the practice time. It isn't the same as practicing with your team, but at least it is practice.

On one hand, you are paying the same as everyone else so if you don't want your daughter to take full advantage of every training opportunity, that is ultimately your decision. However, keep in mind that All the other parents on your team are paying the same amount for good results. Put yourself in their place and you took your DD to every practice and every game, hot, cold and in between.

Then watch a game where some players are just not quite in step with everyone. You know that they haven't attended practice regularly. You know that they are bringing down the level of play. Would you think, "what am I paying for? My daughter can improve 200 percent but if the team doesn't it won't help her." A team is only as strong as its weakest link.

Again, you are the parent so it is up to you and your DD as to what she should do. Just keep in mind that if she isn't that best player on the team who comes out week after week playing at the top of her game, it will be harder for people to cut her slack.

I think having your DD happy should be your number one goal. If you and your DD want to explore all there is in school sports, etc., then go for it. But if you have her in Select Soccer, you may need to make a choice and perhaps move her to a PPL team or sign her up for her school soccer team. High school soccer teams are a great way to go for a multi-sport player once she is at that age.

Agreed #1 id the fun and not just signing up to everything your kids "thinks" they want to do. With that said it is a great opportunity to try 1-2 new things in addition to LH, we have done without hurting anything in our LH experience. Our coach loves the girls to do multiple sports and in fact i think all but 1 does, mostly BB, some track, and swimming. it would last forever, but he has adjusted the teams schedule a bit here and there to accommodate it all.

The key is open communication and obviously if there is a conflict, you agree with the coach in advance on what to do each time.

My 3 all played on D1 LHGCL teams. Just about every kid on their teams played all the MS sports: volleyball, then basketball, then track/soccer. Coaches had everyone's schedules and made adjustments accordingly. We never experienced a noticeable decrease in the level of play of the team.

OTBP,

Your question - "For those that know of such a success story, would you be willing to share details? Perhaps help us to create a road map??"

How about this. There was once a girl who was a natural athlete and could excel at the sport of her choice. She chose soccer and dedicated much of her young life to it. The parents spent a bundle on all of the select soccer costs, private skills training, travel, etc. (The parents also went through all of the phases of select soccer psychosis and look back at it wondering what they must have been thinking). When all was said and done, the girl had some fair scholarship offers by 11th grade, but they were mostly to schools that would not have been her first choice.

Fortunately, the girl made very good grades and did extremely well on the SAT. She was able to choose from all of her preferred schools and received far more scholarship money than she ever would have for playing a sport. This girl currently has a 3.9 GPA in a college she loves, is majoring in what is guaranteed to be a very lucrative career, recently got even more money for the phenomenal first year she had, and is otherwise loving life. She plays club soccer for the university because she enjoys the sport, not because it is required of her. She attends football games, goes out on the weekends with friends, and never misses a class because she is away at a soccer tournament in front of an audience of 50-100 people.

The girl in this story has several friends that did take the college soccer-for-hire route. Most of them got $3000 - $5000. The girls practice twice a day much of the year, and most weekends are occupied with games. They are "allowed" to stay up past curfew twice during the football season to watch their college teams play until halftime. Most of them still love soccer but consider it to be a "full-time job". Several are not likely to return to it, however, in year two because it is simply too demanding. One in particular got injured and was not offered a scholarship renewal.

So what do you want for your daughter? Do you really think she'll ever be a professional female soccer player... whatever that is? Do you think for a second that her zeal for soccer at age 18 will be anything like it is at age 12? Granted, there are always exceptions to the rule. A tiny fraction of the current girls in select soccer will get a full ride at a top school and play all four years while also majoring in their preferred field and finish with good grades. A tiny fraction of the population will also win the lottery. Bottom line: Youth soccer is good for fun, exercise, and all of the things that sports teach a kid about life. Beyond that, it's likely to be a distraction; and distractions in college are usually not positive.

JustaSport wrote:OTBP,

Your question - "For those that know of such a success story, would you be willing to share details? Perhaps help us to create a road map??"

How about this. There was once a girl who was a natural athlete and could excel at the sport of her choice. She chose soccer and dedicated much of her young life to it. The parents spent a bundle on all of the select soccer costs, private skills training, travel, etc. (The parents also went through all of the phases of select soccer psychosis and look back at it wondering what they must have been thinking). When all was said and done, the girl had some fair scholarship offers by 11th grade, but they were mostly to schools that would not have been her first choice.

Fortunately, the girl made very good grades and did extremely well on the SAT. She was able to choose from all of her preferred schools and received far more scholarship money than she ever would have for playing a sport. This girl currently has a 3.9 GPA in a college she loves, is majoring in what is guaranteed to be a very lucrative career, recently got even more money for the phenomenal first year she had, and is otherwise loving life. She plays club soccer for the university because she enjoys the sport, not because it is required of her. She attends football games, goes out on the weekends with friends, and never misses a class because she is away at a soccer tournament in front of an audience of 50-100 people.

The girl in this story has several friends that did take the college soccer-for-hire route. Most of them got $3000 - $5000. The girls practice twice a day much of the year, and most weekends are occupied with games. They are "allowed" to stay up past curfew twice during the football season to watch their college teams play until halftime. Most of them still love soccer but consider it to be a "full-time job". Several are not likely to return to it, however, in year two because it is simply too demanding. One in particular got injured and was not offered a scholarship renewal.

So what do you want for your daughter? Do you really think she'll ever be a professional female soccer player... whatever that is? Do you think for a second that her zeal for soccer at age 18 will be anything like it is at age 12? Granted, there are always exceptions to the rule. A tiny fraction of the current girls in select soccer will get a full ride at a top school and play all four years while also majoring in their preferred field and finish with good grades. A tiny fraction of the population will also win the lottery. Bottom line: Youth soccer is good for fun, exercise, and all of the things that sports teach a kid about life. Beyond that, it's likely to be a distraction; and distractions in college are usually not positive.

Winning!

Just A Sport, Thanks for your input. You just shed some great light on how our family should take this whole soccer thing in. Our dd is an 03 entering this whole chaotic mess. She loves soccer and that's all that matters. We will enjoy watching her play if she makes the Top 30 team or the local rec. team. Because of your response I will finally get some sleep tonight. I don't believe she has any plans on playing professional female soccer! Whatever that is. Thanks again justasport.

Put the money in a college fund, let her play all the sports she wants. When its comes down to the end the amount and time spent is not worth it.....
We've had a great ride, my DD plays at a high level and she will play in college, but as she comes near the end, I see all she has missed out on growing up and the daily time required by colleges when she gets there. The high hopes of younger years turn into a reality of which schools want you vs. having the choice to go any where you want if you had just saved the money. Just look at the list of 2012 commitments on the LH website, I bet 90% of those in their younger years would have never considered the schools they have committed too. Just my two cents...