PPL D1 Teams 2013/2014

survivor01 wrote:

survivor01 wrote:This horse may be beaten but it ain't dead yet.  

D1 Bye's

1.  Fusion
2.  Liverpool
3.  Infinity
4.  Odyssey
5.  Texans White
6.  Solar Chelsey Navy

Folded Teams that had D1 Bye's

FCD South
Kicks East
Solar Chelsey Gold

Will they give these Bye's to

AFC Red
Sting O'Keefe
AFC White (D2 Winners)
TFC White/Andro Blue (D2 2nd place)

OR will they go down the D1 line and give Bye's after the two LH teams get Bye's?

Seems to me that due to the fact that 3 D1 Bye teams folded and 1 D2 Bye team folded, that BOTH D1 and D2 divisions are open for QT competition.  I do think that the top 4 D2 teams could handle many of the bottom D1 teams easily (some have in summer tournaments).  I like the restructure of PPL but I am in agreement that some teams may get lost in the collective shuffle.

Soccer experts, please advise.  I usually miss something in translation so please be kind.  Just trying to sort it out in my mind.

Ummmm bigpapa, quoting myself above in red print.  I said that that the TOP 4 D2 teams could handle many of the bottom D1 teams easily (and some have) which is why I was wondering if any of the top D2 teams would get an opportunity to compete for PPL D1 because there were so many BYE's yet to be determined.  

survivor01 wrote:Ok so with all the recent insight it seems as though there are enough uncertainties to justify a D1 QT.

Facts (I think) on current status of D1:

1.  Fusion - bye
2.  Liverpool - bye
3.  Infinity - bye
4.  Odyssey - bye
5.  Solar Navy (if N+1) - bye
6.  AFC Red - discriminatory bye
7.  AFC White - bye by default for winning D2
8.  ? Could be Andro Blue discriminatory bye
9.  ?
10. ?

With that scenario, it's possible that there could possibly be up to 5 open spots (if byes are not given) which IMO are far too many for PPL to simply "bye out" without giving some strong D2 teams an opportunity to prove their worth in competing for a D1 spot as well as weed out some of the weaker D1 bottom teams.  No offense to anyone at all....just saying as has been well documented on this forum, 19 D1 teams were extremely diluted which I'm guessing is why they were reformatting in the first place.  Additionally, the D1 teams that didn't get D2 byes would certainly like an opportunity to try to qualify as well rather than being booted to D2 because of the reformat.   But what do I know?  I would just like to see PPL let the teams play it out and earn those ? spots.  

Please advise....if I'm off on this, please point out my misunderstanding.

survivor01 wrote:Ok so with all the recent insight it seems as though there are enough uncertainties to justify a D1 QT.

Facts (I think) on current status of D1:

1.  Fusion - bye
2.  Liverpool - bye
3.  Infinity - bye
4.  Odyssey - bye
5.  Solar Navy (if N+1) - bye
6.  AFC Red - discriminatory bye
7.  AFC White - bye by default for winning D2
8.  ? Could be Andro Blue discriminatory bye
9.  ?
10. ?

With that scenario, it's possible that there could possibly be up to 5 open spots (if byes are not given) which IMO are far too many for PPL to simply "bye out" without giving some strong D2 teams an opportunity to prove their worth in competing for a D1 spot as well as weed out some of the weaker D1 bottom teams.  No offense to anyone at all....just saying as has been well documented on this forum, 19 D1 teams were extremely diluted which I'm guessing is why they were reformatting in the first place.  Additionally, the D1 teams that didn't get D2 byes would certainly like an opportunity to try to qualify as well rather than being booted to D2 because of the reformat.   But what do I know?  I would just like to see PPL let the teams play it out and earn those ? spots.  

Please advise....if I'm off on this, please point out my misunderstanding.

JustaSport wrote:

survivor01 wrote:Ok so with all the recent insight it seems as though there are enough uncertainties to justify a D1 QT.

Facts (I think) on current status of D1:

1.  Fusion - bye
2.  Liverpool - bye
3.  Infinity - bye
4.  Odyssey - bye
5.  Solar Navy (if N+1) - bye
6.  AFC Red - discriminatory bye
7.  AFC White - bye by default for winning D2
8.  ? Could be Andro Blue discriminatory bye
9.  ?
10. ?

With that scenario, it's possible that there could possibly be up to 5 open spots (if byes are not given) which IMO are far too many for PPL to simply "bye out" without giving some strong D2 teams an opportunity to prove their worth in competing for a D1 spot as well as weed out some of the weaker D1 bottom teams.  No offense to anyone at all....just saying as has been well documented on this forum, 19 D1 teams were extremely diluted which I'm guessing is why they were reformatting in the first place.  Additionally, the D1 teams that didn't get D2 byes would certainly like an opportunity to try to qualify as well rather than being booted to D2 because of the reformat.   But what do I know?  I would just like to see PPL let the teams play it out and earn those ? spots.  

Please advise....if I'm off on this, please point out my misunderstanding.

While your placements might make sense, the methodology PYSA has chosen to go with is fairly straight forward:  http://www.pysa.org/UserFiles/files/Competitive/PPL/PPL%20F13S14%20Playing%20Format_2013.pdf

I read nothing in the above about discretionary byes for PPL D1; only D2.

Marvelousmar wrote:How about this.  PPL and Board let me know what you think.  
Since it appears that there will be a lot of open spots and no real way of allocating.  During QT you ask the teams if you would like to try-out for Division 1 or Division 2.  If you try out for Division 1 and fail to make it unless the play on the field indicates (based on PPL's discretion) the highest you can get into is Division 3 or there is a play in game.  I know there is some subjectivity here but it will make the coaches really think hard about what level they think they would like to try out for.  The decision could be made after looking at the list of teams that will be playing in division 1.  So lets say there are 4 spots available after byes and N+1's for Division 1.  
In my Play in game example 8 teams indicate the desire to try out for that division and 20 teams want to try out for division 2.  The 4 teams that didn't make it and the last four qualifiers have a 1 game play in game.  Winner gets division 2 loser goes to division 3.  It gets settled on the field and should favour the team that tried out for Division 2 since theoretically the games should not have been as challenging.  This method reduces some of the subjectivity leaves it to coaches to really evaluate their team and adds to the risk and reward of the PT.  Dang I think this is a good idea and only adds 1 more game in theory.  PPL limits it to 8 teams trying out and can base it on their ranking of the teams.  If you think a team is in the 8 that you can beat you challenge them before the event to a duel.  ( I just added that part not enough time to add a challenge game)  

Or maybe you set the tourney up for the 24-28 teams as they do in prime time.  And based on your results you either move into the Division 1 championship bracket or the consolation bracket.    Lots of different ways to do this but the best way is to create some way that it is solved on the field based on players that exist on the teams today not based on past years as we are trying to get the levels appropriately developed.

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

01GirlsOnly wrote:

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

But, if you don't earn a bye for next year, then what are you playing for?  No reward for wining or high placement, longevity, incentive to hold your team together.  Certainly, they lose some of the exciitwment not having teams duke it out for say the bottom 4 or spots in D1. Perhaps they should give fewer byes and maybe they will.  But, if they don't and your team doesn't like it - then what ? All the folks complaining in hear say LHGCL Committee stinks but they all want in and if they don't get in, they all want PPL D1 as a consolation.  If you think they both are so horrible, you could drive to Arlngton I guess?

One thing is for sure - there is absolutely nothing LHGCL or PPL could do to escape the complaints on this blog - I guess that's just the nature of blogs, no matter the choice by leadership, it will always create the have nots who will complain.

Personally, I am for fewer byes in a bigger league with a playoff tournament at the end - woohoo...

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

But, if you don't earn a bye for next year, then what are you playing for?  No reward for wining or high placement, longevity, incentive to hold your team together.  Certainly, they lose some of the exciitwment not having teams duke it out for say the bottom 4 or spots in D1. Perhaps they should give fewer byes and maybe they will.  But, if they don't and your team doesn't like it - then what ? All the folks complaining in hear say LHGCL Committee stinks but they all want in and if they don't get in, they all want PPL D1 as a consolation.  If you think they both are so horrible, you could drive to Arlngton I guess?

One thing is for sure - there is absolutely nothing LHGCL or PPL could do to escape the complaints on this blog - I guess that's just the nature of blogs, no matter the choice by leadership, it will always create the have nots who will complain.

Personally, I am for fewer byes in a bigger league with a playoff tournament at the end - woohoo...

Don't think he ever said there shouldn't be any byes.  If you go back and look at his posts, he just repeats that  PPL doesn't follow their own rules and make decisions contrary to them as they see fit.  

Personally, I don't have a problem with byes in leagues, but I think them awarding all 10 D1 spots byes based on prior year results is a bit ridiculous for that league.  My reason for that?  You pointed it out in your post.  Everyone wants to be in LHGCL - that means players want the security of being on a team in that league, or at least on one that will be competitive to qualify for one.  Which means middle-to-weaker teams will ALWAYS lose their better players EVERY year to those teams that have that opportunity.  On the flip side, coaches and clubs want the same thing . . . to be in LHGCL.  Many of them see no difference between being in Plano D1 or D2.  So they will do whatever they need to regarding their roster to make sure they have the best players & chemistry possible to give them the very best opportunity to qualify.  And if they don't then who cares at that point - they didn't accomplish their primary preseason goal and will have to wait another year to try again.  In other words, their thinking about LHGCL qualification first and will deal with the rest as it happens (partially because they know PPL won't stick to their own rules/policies?).

The problem with LHGCL isn't the rules for promotion, relegation, or EXISTING teams keeping their byes . . . their problem is how they regulate (or lack to regulate) clubs keeping their byes when teams fold and the spot is vacated.  The problem with PPL & APL is they will ALWAYS take a back seat to coaches, players, and parents wanting to be in LHGCL.  So any rules they make to try and regulate turnover will be for nothing, and they will have to make exceptions.  It basically becomes like a REC league where you can form your own roster.

So long story short, PPL/APL will always be in a no-win situation . . . damned if they do or damned if they don't.

01GirlsOnly wrote:

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

But, if you don't earn a bye for next year, then what are you playing for?  No reward for wining or high placement, longevity, incentive to hold your team together.  Certainly, they lose some of the exciitwment not having teams duke it out for say the bottom 4 or spots in D1. Perhaps they should give fewer byes and maybe they will.  But, if they don't and your team doesn't like it - then what ? All the folks complaining in hear say LHGCL Committee stinks but they all want in and if they don't get in, they all want PPL D1 as a consolation.  If you think they both are so horrible, you could drive to Arlngton I guess?

One thing is for sure - there is absolutely nothing LHGCL or PPL could do to escape the complaints on this blog - I guess that's just the nature of blogs, no matter the choice by leadership, it will always create the have nots who will complain.

Personally, I am for fewer byes in a bigger league with a playoff tournament at the end - woohoo...

Don't think he ever said there shouldn't be any byes.  If you go back and look at his posts, he just repeats that  PPL doesn't follow their own rules and make decisions contrary to them as they see fit.  

Personally, I don't have a problem with byes in leagues, but I think them awarding all 10 D1 spots byes based on prior year results is a bit ridiculous for that league.  My reason for that?  You pointed it out in your post.  Everyone wants to be in LHGCL - that means players want the security of being on a team in that league, or at least on one that will be competitive to qualify for one.  Which means middle-to-weaker teams will ALWAYS lose their better players EVERY year to those teams that have that opportunity.  On the flip side, coaches and clubs want the same thing . . . to be in LHGCL.  Many of them see no difference between being in Plano D1 or D2.  So they will do whatever they need to regarding their roster to make sure they have the best players & chemistry possible to give them the very best opportunity to qualify.  And if they don't then who cares at that point - they didn't accomplish their primary preseason goal and will have to wait another year to try again.  In other words, their thinking about LHGCL qualification first and will deal with the rest as it happens (partially because they know PPL won't stick to their own rules/policies?).

The problem with LHGCL isn't the rules for promotion, relegation, or EXISTING teams keeping their byes . . . their problem is how they regulate (or lack to regulate) clubs keeping their byes when teams fold and the spot is vacated.  The problem with PPL & APL is they will ALWAYS take a back seat to coaches, players, and parents wanting to be in LHGCL.  So any rules they make to try and regulate turnover will be for nothing, and they will have to make exceptions.  It basically becomes like a REC league where you can form your own roster.

So long story short, PPL/APL will always be in a no-win situation . . . damned if they do or damned if they don't.

One of the biggest problems is everyone on here talking about PPL not following their own rules and policies when they don't really know what those policies and rules say, how they work together, and are genreally unfamiliar with the difference between, policy, rule and guidline.  If you look at the actual Rules, it makes clear that the league has discretion in how and whether to even offer a bye.  Nothing in the Rules says they must give a bye to anyone and the applicable Rule leaves it to the Committee to determine each year how the byes, if any, will be handed out. Then, in the playing format document for the league year, they set out how they intend to grant byes in general, but since the actual Rules grant the Committee complete discretion with regard to granting the byes or not, they are free to change their approach as they see fit.  So, if they make tweaks that they see the value in, you can complain about their judgement, take your ball and go play for another leagure, but you cannot say they aren't following their rules because that simply isn't true.

Moreover, the only ones who really have any standing to complain about rules are those who beccome voting members in the League - if really want change and you care enough to do that, then you complain the right way, according to the Rules.  The actual Rules provide for voting members to propose changes to the General or Playing Rules at any Board or General Membership meeting.  The folks who complain about LH and don't get in and then complain about PPL's decsion on how they will place those on the rebound really have no basis to whine becasue they didn't care enough to do anything about the perceived inequities when they could have, by joining and presenting a proposed change at any Board or General Membership meeting. Or, better yet, volunteer and be a Committee member.  

As for the reference to the byes, I did not say big papa was advocating no byes (you were quoting meobsessed on that, not big papa) - I was agreeing that it makes it more interesting to have some places up for grabs - just pointing out that when you change the format, the ones displaced by the change will be raising hell saying the league doesn't follow their own rules, and they, just like everyone else saying that, won't know what they are talking about.  If the Committee announces today, that there will be no byes and all placements will be determined by PT, they would be completely within the authority granted to them by the RULES.

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

But, if you don't earn a bye for next year, then what are you playing for?  No reward for wining or high placement, longevity, incentive to hold your team together.  Certainly, they lose some of the exciitwment not having teams duke it out for say the bottom 4 or spots in D1. Perhaps they should give fewer byes and maybe they will.  But, if they don't and your team doesn't like it - then what ? All the folks complaining in hear say LHGCL Committee stinks but they all want in and if they don't get in, they all want PPL D1 as a consolation.  If you think they both are so horrible, you could drive to Arlngton I guess?

One thing is for sure - there is absolutely nothing LHGCL or PPL could do to escape the complaints on this blog - I guess that's just the nature of blogs, no matter the choice by leadership, it will always create the have nots who will complain.

Personally, I am for fewer byes in a bigger league with a playoff tournament at the end - woohoo...

Don't think he ever said there shouldn't be any byes.  If you go back and look at his posts, he just repeats that  PPL doesn't follow their own rules and make decisions contrary to them as they see fit.  

Personally, I don't have a problem with byes in leagues, but I think them awarding all 10 D1 spots byes based on prior year results is a bit ridiculous for that league.  My reason for that?  You pointed it out in your post.  Everyone wants to be in LHGCL - that means players want the security of being on a team in that league, or at least on one that will be competitive to qualify for one.  Which means middle-to-weaker teams will ALWAYS lose their better players EVERY year to those teams that have that opportunity.  On the flip side, coaches and clubs want the same thing . . . to be in LHGCL.  Many of them see no difference between being in Plano D1 or D2.  So they will do whatever they need to regarding their roster to make sure they have the best players & chemistry possible to give them the very best opportunity to qualify.  And if they don't then who cares at that point - they didn't accomplish their primary preseason goal and will have to wait another year to try again.  In other words, their thinking about LHGCL qualification first and will deal with the rest as it happens (partially because they know PPL won't stick to their own rules/policies?).

The problem with LHGCL isn't the rules for promotion, relegation, or EXISTING teams keeping their byes . . . their problem is how they regulate (or lack to regulate) clubs keeping their byes when teams fold and the spot is vacated.  The problem with PPL & APL is they will ALWAYS take a back seat to coaches, players, and parents wanting to be in LHGCL.  So any rules they make to try and regulate turnover will be for nothing, and they will have to make exceptions.  It basically becomes like a REC league where you can form your own roster.

So long story short, PPL/APL will always be in a no-win situation . . . damned if they do or damned if they don't.

One of the biggest problems is everyone on here talking about PPL not following their own rules and policies when they don't really know what those policies and rules say, how they work together, and are genreally unfamiliar with the difference between, policy, rule and guidline.  If you look at the actual Rules, it makes clear that the league has discretion in how and whether to even offer a bye.  Nothing in the Rules says they must give a bye to anyone and the applicable Rule leaves it to the Committee to determine each year how the byes, if any, will be handed out. Then, in the playing format document for the league year, they set out how they intend to grant byes in general, but since the actual Rules grant the Committee complete discretion with regard to granting the byes or not, they are free to change their approach as they see fit.  So, if they make tweaks that they see the value in, you can complain about their judgement, take your ball and go play for another leagure, but you cannot say they aren't following their rules because that simply isn't true.

Moreover, the only ones who really have any standing to complain about rules are those who beccome voting members in the League - if really want change and you care enough to do that, then you complain the right way, according to the Rules.  The actual Rules provide for voting members to propose changes to the General or Playing Rules at any Board or General Membership meeting.  The folks who complain about LH and don't get in and then complain about PPL's decsion on how they will place those on the rebound really have no basis to whine becasue they didn't care enough to do anything about the perceived inequities when they could have, by joining and presenting a proposed change at any Board or General Membership meeting. Or, better yet, volunteer and be a Committee member.  

As for the reference to the byes, I did not say big papa was advocating no byes (you were quoting meobsessed on that, not big papa) - I was agreeing that it makes it more interesting to have some places up for grabs - just pointing out that when you change the format, the ones displaced by the change will be raising hell saying the league doesn't follow their own rules, and they, just like everyone else saying that, won't know what they are talking about.  If the Committee announces today, that there will be no byes and all placements will be determined by PT, they would be completely within the authority granted to them by the RULES.

I think we're saying the same thing here.  I just should have used the words "guidelines" instead of "rules".  Would clarify the context.

me?obsessed? wrote:
It really doesn't matter.  PPL always does whatever they want-just depends who's kissing their burro the most at the time.

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

But, if you don't earn a bye for next year, then what are you playing for?  No reward for wining or high placement, longevity, incentive to hold your team together.  Certainly, they lose some of the exciitwment not having teams duke it out for say the bottom 4 or spots in D1. Perhaps they should give fewer byes and maybe they will.  But, if they don't and your team doesn't like it - then what ? All the folks complaining in hear say LHGCL Committee stinks but they all want in and if they don't get in, they all want PPL D1 as a consolation.  If you think they both are so horrible, you could drive to Arlngton I guess?

One thing is for sure - there is absolutely nothing LHGCL or PPL could do to escape the complaints on this blog - I guess that's just the nature of blogs, no matter the choice by leadership, it will always create the have nots who will complain.

Personally, I am for fewer byes in a bigger league with a playoff tournament at the end - woohoo...

Don't think he ever said there shouldn't be any byes.  If you go back and look at his posts, he just repeats that  PPL doesn't follow their own rules and make decisions contrary to them as they see fit.  

Personally, I don't have a problem with byes in leagues, but I think them awarding all 10 D1 spots byes based on prior year results is a bit ridiculous for that league.  My reason for that?  You pointed it out in your post.  Everyone wants to be in LHGCL - that means players want the security of being on a team in that league, or at least on one that will be competitive to qualify for one.  Which means middle-to-weaker teams will ALWAYS lose their better players EVERY year to those teams that have that opportunity.  On the flip side, coaches and clubs want the same thing . . . to be in LHGCL.  Many of them see no difference between being in Plano D1 or D2.  So they will do whatever they need to regarding their roster to make sure they have the best players & chemistry possible to give them the very best opportunity to qualify.  And if they don't then who cares at that point - they didn't accomplish their primary preseason goal and will have to wait another year to try again.  In other words, their thinking about LHGCL qualification first and will deal with the rest as it happens (partially because they know PPL won't stick to their own rules/policies?).

The problem with LHGCL isn't the rules for promotion, relegation, or EXISTING teams keeping their byes . . . their problem is how they regulate (or lack to regulate) clubs keeping their byes when teams fold and the spot is vacated.  The problem with PPL & APL is they will ALWAYS take a back seat to coaches, players, and parents wanting to be in LHGCL.  So any rules they make to try and regulate turnover will be for nothing, and they will have to make exceptions.  It basically becomes like a REC league where you can form your own roster.

So long story short, PPL/APL will always be in a no-win situation . . . damned if they do or damned if they don't.

One of the biggest problems is everyone on here talking about PPL not following their own rules and policies when they don't really know what those policies and rules say, how they work together, and are genreally unfamiliar with the difference between, policy, rule and guidline.  If you look at the actual Rules, it makes clear that the league has discretion in how and whether to even offer a bye.  Nothing in the Rules says they must give a bye to anyone and the applicable Rule leaves it to the Committee to determine each year how the byes, if any, will be handed out. Then, in the playing format document for the league year, they set out how they intend to grant byes in general, but since the actual Rules grant the Committee complete discretion with regard to granting the byes or not, they are free to change their approach as they see fit.  So, if they make tweaks that they see the value in, you can complain about their judgement, take your ball and go play for another leagure, but you cannot say they aren't following their rules because that simply isn't true.

Moreover, the only ones who really have any standing to complain about rules are those who beccome voting members in the League - if really want change and you care enough to do that, then you complain the right way, according to the Rules.  The actual Rules provide for voting members to propose changes to the General or Playing Rules at any Board or General Membership meeting.  The folks who complain about LH and don't get in and then complain about PPL's decsion on how they will place those on the rebound really have no basis to whine becasue they didn't care enough to do anything about the perceived inequities when they could have, by joining and presenting a proposed change at any Board or General Membership meeting. Or, better yet, volunteer and be a Committee member.  

As for the reference to the byes, I did not say big papa was advocating no byes (you were quoting meobsessed on that, not big papa) - I was agreeing that it makes it more interesting to have some places up for grabs - just pointing out that when you change the format, the ones displaced by the change will be raising hell saying the league doesn't follow their own rules, and they, just like everyone else saying that, won't know what they are talking about.  If the Committee announces today, that there will be no byes and all placements will be determined by PT, they would be completely within the authority granted to them by the RULES.

I think we're saying the same thing here.  I just should have used the words "guidelines" instead of "rules".  Would clarify the context.

01GirlsOnly wrote:

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

But, if you don't earn a bye for next year, then what are you playing for?  No reward for wining or high placement, longevity, incentive to hold your team together.  Certainly, they lose some of the exciitwment not having teams duke it out for say the bottom 4 or spots in D1. Perhaps they should give fewer byes and maybe they will.  But, if they don't and your team doesn't like it - then what ? All the folks complaining in hear say LHGCL Committee stinks but they all want in and if they don't get in, they all want PPL D1 as a consolation.  If you think they both are so horrible, you could drive to Arlngton I guess?

One thing is for sure - there is absolutely nothing LHGCL or PPL could do to escape the complaints on this blog - I guess that's just the nature of blogs, no matter the choice by leadership, it will always create the have nots who will complain.

Personally, I am for fewer byes in a bigger league with a playoff tournament at the end - woohoo...

Don't think he ever said there shouldn't be any byes.  If you go back and look at his posts, he just repeats that  PPL doesn't follow their own rules and make decisions contrary to them as they see fit.  

Personally, I don't have a problem with byes in leagues, but I think them awarding all 10 D1 spots byes based on prior year results is a bit ridiculous for that league.  My reason for that?  You pointed it out in your post.  Everyone wants to be in LHGCL - that means players want the security of being on a team in that league, or at least on one that will be competitive to qualify for one.  Which means middle-to-weaker teams will ALWAYS lose their better players EVERY year to those teams that have that opportunity.  On the flip side, coaches and clubs want the same thing . . . to be in LHGCL.  Many of them see no difference between being in Plano D1 or D2.  So they will do whatever they need to regarding their roster to make sure they have the best players & chemistry possible to give them the very best opportunity to qualify.  And if they don't then who cares at that point - they didn't accomplish their primary preseason goal and will have to wait another year to try again.  In other words, their thinking about LHGCL qualification first and will deal with the rest as it happens (partially because they know PPL won't stick to their own rules/policies?).

The problem with LHGCL isn't the rules for promotion, relegation, or EXISTING teams keeping their byes . . . their problem is how they regulate (or lack to regulate) clubs keeping their byes when teams fold and the spot is vacated.  The problem with PPL & APL is they will ALWAYS take a back seat to coaches, players, and parents wanting to be in LHGCL.  So any rules they make to try and regulate turnover will be for nothing, and they will have to make exceptions.  It basically becomes like a REC league where you can form your own roster.

So long story short, PPL/APL will always be in a no-win situation . . . damned if they do or damned if they don't.

One of the biggest problems is everyone on here talking about PPL not following their own rules and policies when they don't really know what those policies and rules say, how they work together, and are genreally unfamiliar with the difference between, policy, rule and guidline.  If you look at the actual Rules, it makes clear that the league has discretion in how and whether to even offer a bye.  Nothing in the Rules says they must give a bye to anyone and the applicable Rule leaves it to the Committee to determine each year how the byes, if any, will be handed out. Then, in the playing format document for the league year, they set out how they intend to grant byes in general, but since the actual Rules grant the Committee complete discretion with regard to granting the byes or not, they are free to change their approach as they see fit.  So, if they make tweaks that they see the value in, you can complain about their judgement, take your ball and go play for another leagure, but you cannot say they aren't following their rules because that simply isn't true.

Moreover, the only ones who really have any standing to complain about rules are those who beccome voting members in the League - if really want change and you care enough to do that, then you complain the right way, according to the Rules.  The actual Rules provide for voting members to propose changes to the General or Playing Rules at any Board or General Membership meeting.  The folks who complain about LH and don't get in and then complain about PPL's decsion on how they will place those on the rebound really have no basis to whine becasue they didn't care enough to do anything about the perceived inequities when they could have, by joining and presenting a proposed change at any Board or General Membership meeting. Or, better yet, volunteer and be a Committee member.  

As for the reference to the byes, I did not say big papa was advocating no byes - I was agreeing that it makes it more interesting to have some places up for grabs - just pointing out that when you change the format, the ones displaced by the change will be raising hell saying the league doesn't follow their own rules, and they, just like everyone else saying that, won't know what they are talking about.  If the Committee announces today, that there will be no byes and all placements will be determined by PT, they would be completely within the authority granted to them by the RULES.