PPL D1 Teams 2013/2014

JustaSport wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

OrangeBlooded wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:As much as I hate to side with the man, and I hate to side with the man, PPL has a pretty fair set up the way it is.  They require teams to have more than 50% of their players from the team that earned the bye and that's more than Classic does.  

And, remember for the rest, this is a Placement Tournament unlike Classic which truly is a Qualifying Tournament. Only 30 teams get into LHGCL - PPL takes as many meeting the minimum standards as are willing to pay the fee - the Placement Tournament just determines where they fall in the continuum below the paying customers who earned their byes last year...

Only if they stick to the rule, and I highly doubt they will.  If they do stick to it, there will be even fewer teams not eligible for byes then there already are and BOTH their D1 & D2 divisions will end up overly diverse and unbalanced.  Which makes for a very disappointing and frustrating season for teams at both ends of the spectrum.

But, if you don't earn a bye for next year, then what are you playing for?  No reward for wining or high placement, longevity, incentive to hold your team together.  Certainly, they lose some of the exciitwment not having teams duke it out for say the bottom 4 or spots in D1. Perhaps they should give fewer byes and maybe they will.  But, if they don't and your team doesn't like it - then what ? All the folks complaining in hear say LHGCL Committee stinks but they all want in and if they don't get in, they all want PPL D1 as a consolation.  If you think they both are so horrible, you could drive to Arlngton I guess?

One thing is for sure - there is absolutely nothing LHGCL or PPL could do to escape the complaints on this blog - I guess that's just the nature of blogs, no matter the choice by leadership, it will always create the have nots who will complain.

Personally, I am for fewer byes in a bigger league with a playoff tournament at the end - woohoo...

Don't think he ever said there shouldn't be any byes.  If you go back and look at his posts, he just repeats that  PPL doesn't follow their own rules and make decisions contrary to them as they see fit.  

Personally, I don't have a problem with byes in leagues, but I think them awarding all 10 D1 spots byes based on prior year results is a bit ridiculous for that league.  My reason for that?  You pointed it out in your post.  Everyone wants to be in LHGCL - that means players want the security of being on a team in that league, or at least on one that will be competitive to qualify for one.  Which means middle-to-weaker teams will ALWAYS lose their better players EVERY year to those teams that have that opportunity.  On the flip side, coaches and clubs want the same thing . . . to be in LHGCL.  Many of them see no difference between being in Plano D1 or D2.  So they will do whatever they need to regarding their roster to make sure they have the best players & chemistry possible to give them the very best opportunity to qualify.  And if they don't then who cares at that point - they didn't accomplish their primary preseason goal and will have to wait another year to try again.  In other words, their thinking about LHGCL qualification first and will deal with the rest as it happens (partially because they know PPL won't stick to their own rules/policies?).

The problem with LHGCL isn't the rules for promotion, relegation, or EXISTING teams keeping their byes . . . their problem is how they regulate (or lack to regulate) clubs keeping their byes when teams fold and the spot is vacated.  The problem with PPL & APL is they will ALWAYS take a back seat to coaches, players, and parents wanting to be in LHGCL.  So any rules they make to try and regulate turnover will be for nothing, and they will have to make exceptions.  It basically becomes like a REC league where you can form your own roster.

So long story short, PPL/APL will always be in a no-win situation . . . damned if they do or damned if they don't.

One of the biggest problems is everyone on here talking about PPL not following their own rules and policies when they don't really know what those policies and rules say, how they work together, and are genreally unfamiliar with the difference between, policy, rule and guidline.  If you look at the actual Rules, it makes clear that the league has discretion in how and whether to even offer a bye.  Nothing in the Rules says they must give a bye to anyone and the applicable Rule leaves it to the Committee to determine each year how the byes, if any, will be handed out. Then, in the playing format document for the league year, they set out how they intend to grant byes in general, but since the actual Rules grant the Committee complete discretion with regard to granting the byes or not, they are free to change their approach as they see fit.  So, if they make tweaks that they see the value in, you can complain about their judgement, take your ball and go play for another leagure, but you cannot say they aren't following their rules because that simply isn't true.

Moreover, the only ones who really have any standing to complain about rules are those who beccome voting members in the League - if really want change and you care enough to do that, then you complain the right way, according to the Rules.  The actual Rules provide for voting members to propose changes to the General or Playing Rules at any Board or General Membership meeting.  The folks who complain about LH and don't get in and then complain about PPL's decsion on how they will place those on the rebound really have no basis to whine becasue they didn't care enough to do anything about the perceived inequities when they could have, by joining and presenting a proposed change at any Board or General Membership meeting. Or, better yet, volunteer and be a Committee member.  

As for the reference to the byes, I did not say big papa was advocating no byes - I was agreeing that it makes it more interesting to have some places up for grabs - just pointing out that when you change the format, the ones displaced by the change will be raising hell saying the league doesn't follow their own rules, and they, just like everyone else saying that, won't know what they are talking about.  If the Committee announces today, that there will be no byes and all placements will be determined by PT, they would be completely within the authority granted to them by the RULES.

Your statements in red above are how I understand it, as well.  I was specifically trying to figure out the situation for AFC White and Andromeda Blue (prev. TFC White).  The general "understanding" before was that as top two finishers in PPL D2 last year, they would be moved up to D1.  But now the setup has changed, and they will be back in D2... which is the new D2 that is actually the bottom half of the old D1.  I'm starting to get a headache.  It would be great to see these two teams land in the upcoming true D1 since it is up to the discretion of PYSA and the teams earned it, but I'm not holding my breath.  Were I the manager or coach of either of these teams, I would sure be making my case with the league given that the "rules" changed between one season and the next.

OrangeBlooded wrote:Remember this example from last year regarding LH teams moving back in to PPL . . .

There were a couple vacated byes from teams that either folded or moved up to LHGCL.  Kicks East just missed re-qualifying for LH and was having to move back in to PPL.  If I recall correctly, PPL stated that teams coming out of LH could be given D1 byes (similar to their guidelines this year).  However, the byes were given to teams finishing outside the PPL D1 top 10 from prior year and Kicks East was forced to play the placement tournament to get in to D1.

So if I'm remembering all that correctly, I'd be prepared to play in the placement tournament for a D2 placement if my DD was with AFC Red or Sting Ft. Worth - unless they've already been told otherwise.

01GirlsOnly wrote:

OrangeBlooded wrote:Remember this example from last year regarding LH teams moving back in to PPL . . .

There were a couple vacated byes from teams that either folded or moved up to LHGCL.  Kicks East just missed re-qualifying for LH and was having to move back in to PPL.  If I recall correctly, PPL stated that teams coming out of LH could be given D1 byes (similar to their guidelines this year).  However, the byes were given to teams finishing outside the PPL D1 top 10 from prior year and Kicks East was forced to play the placement tournament to get in to D1.

So if I'm remembering all that correctly, I'd be prepared to play in the placement tournament for a D2 placement if my DD was with AFC Red or Sting Ft. Worth - unless they've already been told otherwise.

Yes - you are correct - there was quite the ringing of hands and nashing of teeth over that one - oh my how could they make poor Kicks Play the PT.  Now, why should LH teams get a bye some a re saying...I think the major perception problem here is D2 would have been D1 last year and D2 PPL just sounds bad so they want a shot at D1 - they loved and lost what can we say... 

me?obsessed? wrote:

01GirlsOnly wrote:

OrangeBlooded wrote:Remember this example from last year regarding LH teams moving back in to PPL . . .

There were a couple vacated byes from teams that either folded or moved up to LHGCL.  Kicks East just missed re-qualifying for LH and was having to move back in to PPL.  If I recall correctly, PPL stated that teams coming out of LH could be given D1 byes (similar to their guidelines this year).  However, the byes were given to teams finishing outside the PPL D1 top 10 from prior year and Kicks East was forced to play the placement tournament to get in to D1.

So if I'm remembering all that correctly, I'd be prepared to play in the placement tournament for a D2 placement if my DD was with AFC Red or Sting Ft. Worth - unless they've already been told otherwise.

Yes - you are correct - there was quite the ringing of hands and nashing of teeth over that one - oh my how could they make poor Kicks Play the PT.  Now, why should LH teams get a bye some a re saying...I think the major perception problem here is D2 would have been D1 last year and D2 PPL just sounds bad so they want a shot at D1 - they loved and lost what can we say... 

Yeah.................I'm gonna chime in one more time then be done with this dead horse of a thread (which I know makes everyone happy). But I remember this as well.  The big stink came from the fact that one of the teams that was awarded the bye over Kicks East had a coach that was also a newly appointed PPL/PYSA board member.  Nah, no favoritism during that decision at all................  

Ok..............I'm done.  P E A C E - O U T!

Tiki-taka wrote:http://www.planoyouthsoccer.org/PDF/Comp%20Forms/Byes_2014.pdf