Re: Lake Highland's finest

by coachr 04/03/12, 06:06 pm

I think we can all agree refs suck donkeys. Do they ref for free? Nope!
As humans I love all refs but when they become distribution agents of injury in soccer they then become muppets.

by Shotshagger 04/03/12, 07:05 pm

Flamethrower wrote:ok, so here is a issue. I usually DO NOT take up for Lake Highlands. I may have to to a extent this time. I am basing this opinion on hte original post saying " Lake highlands finest, now ECNL does not look so bad"

There is a simple issue to discuss here.. If a game in Lake Highlands or a ECNL game is played here, both leagues use the same referee assignor. The referee assignor owns the area.
I do not have a opinion on what happened out at the fields with parents , etc.. These are just the facts when it comes to who referees what.. there is no difference between LH refs and ECNL Refs.

I now understand why the ECNL parents pay mega-$ on airline tickets for their matches!

I say that in jest because, honestly, the level of reffing in D1 LHGCL is usually pretty good. That's why a bad one stands out. The U14 game was too fast for geriatric gentleman I mentioned yesterday; he would have had better luck on the semi-mighty-tots-level play I saw behind me Saturday on field two.

by Ed 05/03/12, 05:26 am

Shotshagger wrote:
Flamethrower wrote:ok, so here is a issue. I usually DO NOT take up for Lake Highlands. I may have to to a extent this time. I am basing this opinion on hte original post saying " Lake highlands finest, now ECNL does not look so bad"

There is a simple issue to discuss here.. If a game in Lake Highlands or a ECNL game is played here, both leagues use the same referee assignor. The referee assignor owns the area.
I do not have a opinion on what happened out at the fields with parents , etc.. These are just the facts when it comes to who referees what.. there is no difference between LH refs and ECNL Refs.

I now understand why the ECNL parents pay mega-$ on airline tickets for their matches!

I say that in jest because, honestly, the level of reffing in D1 LHGCL is usually pretty good. That's why a bad one stands out. The U14 game was too fast for geriatric gentleman I mentioned yesterday; he would have had better luck on the semi-mighty-tots-level play I saw behind me Saturday on field two.

Nice. Cut down girls that did not have anything to do with you or your DDs game. Good way to prove you were one of the loudmouth jerks on field 3. Were you the loudmouth that got tossed for being a jackass or one that got away with it?

by Shotshagger 05/03/12, 07:49 am

Nothing wrong with Might Tots soccer; I have a lot of fond memories of my kids playing at young ages. And of course, the kids on Field 2 were older than that. My point was that an old guy could keep up with them better--the game isn't nearly as fast as it will become.

by Longing4agame 05/03/12, 08:37 am

Ed wrote:
Shotshagger wrote:
Flamethrower wrote:ok, so here is a issue. I usually DO NOT take up for Lake Highlands. I may have to to a extent this time. I am basing this opinion on hte original post saying " Lake highlands finest, now ECNL does not look so bad"

There is a simple issue to discuss here.. If a game in Lake Highlands or a ECNL game is played here, both leagues use the same referee assignor. The referee assignor owns the area.
I do not have a opinion on what happened out at the fields with parents , etc.. These are just the facts when it comes to who referees what.. there is no difference between LH refs and ECNL Refs.

I now understand why the ECNL parents pay mega-$ on airline tickets for their matches!

I say that in jest because, honestly, the level of reffing in D1 LHGCL is usually pretty good. That's why a bad one stands out. The U14 game was too fast for geriatric gentleman I mentioned yesterday; he would have had better luck on the semi-mighty-tots-level play I saw behind me Saturday on field two.

Nice. Cut down girls that did not have anything to do with you or your DDs game. Good way to prove you were one of the loudmouth jerks on field 3. Were you the loudmouth that got tossed for being a jackass or one that got away with it?

I can tell you the guy that was tossed is a referee himself. He made all valid points during the game. Someone had already gotten hurt and there was no foul even called on that play. It was ridiculous. Unless you were watching and listening to the entire game, you really can't have an opinion as to whether someone should or should not have been tossed. It's like catching the retaliation punch in a fight but not seeing what caused it. Unless you have a clear view of the entire situation, keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.

Shotshagger is right about one thing. Most of the time the referee's have been pretty good this year. The fact that this guy was so bad is why it stood out.

by ballhead 05/03/12, 09:04 am

Longing4agame wrote:
I can tell you the guy that was tossed is a referee himself. He made all valid points during the game. Someone had already gotten hurt and there was no foul even called on that play. It was ridiculous. Unless you were watching and listening to the entire game, you really can't have an opinion as to whether someone should or should not have been tossed. It's like catching the retaliation punch in a fight but not seeing what caused it. Unless you have a clear view of the entire situation, keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.

Shotshagger is right about one thing. Most of the time the referee's have been pretty good this year. The fact that this guy was so bad is why it stood out.

Well, I was out of this, but this has to be one of the most asinine posts I've ever seen. When a spectator is making an ass out of himself, I don't need to see ANYTHING on the field to know its wrong. And if the guy is a referee, he, better than anyone else there, knew his behavior was wrong.

You're trying to equate a fight between two individuals (regardless of who threw the first punch) with a referee calling a match on the field and an individual on the sideline verbally abusing him.

I watched and listened to enough of this guys behavior (and apparently others did, too) to know he should have been tossed. To say that it was somehow justified by the poor game the guy called is nuts.

It sounds like he called a horrible game based on your and Shotshagger's opinion. If I were to give an opinion on that without "having a clear view of the entire situation" then perhaps "keep your uninformed opinion to yourself" would be valid advice.

Sounds like maybe we've identified the gentleman that was tossed, and his partner in crime that got away with it.

by newtothis 05/03/12, 09:07 am

Longing4agame wrote:
Ed wrote:
Shotshagger wrote:
Flamethrower wrote:ok, so here is a issue. I usually DO NOT take up for Lake Highlands. I may have to to a extent this time. I am basing this opinion on hte original post saying " Lake highlands finest, now ECNL does not look so bad"

There is a simple issue to discuss here.. If a game in Lake Highlands or a ECNL game is played here, both leagues use the same referee assignor. The referee assignor owns the area.
I do not have a opinion on what happened out at the fields with parents , etc.. These are just the facts when it comes to who referees what.. there is no difference between LH refs and ECNL Refs.

I now understand why the ECNL parents pay mega-$ on airline tickets for their matches!

I say that in jest because, honestly, the level of reffing in D1 LHGCL is usually pretty good. That's why a bad one stands out. The U14 game was too fast for geriatric gentleman I mentioned yesterday; he would have had better luck on the semi-mighty-tots-level play I saw behind me Saturday on field two.

Nice. Cut down girls that did not have anything to do with you or your DDs game. Good way to prove you were one of the loudmouth jerks on field 3. Were you the loudmouth that got tossed for being a jackass or one that got away with it?

I can tell you the guy that was tossed is a referee himself. He made all valid points during the game. Someone had already gotten hurt and there was no foul even called on that play. It was ridiculous. Unless you were watching and listening to the entire game, you really can't have an opinion as to whether someone should or should not have been tossed. It's like catching the retaliation punch in a fight but not seeing what caused it. Unless you have a clear view of the entire situation, keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.

Shotshagger is right about one thing. Most of the time the referee's have been pretty good this year. The fact that this guy was so bad is why it stood out.

Umm, I could not disagree more, it doesn't take watching an entire game to know that what the guy tossed was yelling was way out of line. My daughter was one of the so-called "mini tots" on field 2 (I think on the other team than Ed) and I heard plenty coming from that guy without trying. And it did not just start aftr the keep got injured, it was onging from the start of the game. From what I saw the white team was far better than the blue team and the blue team parents were unhappy and taking it out on the referee. What that guy was yelling were not "valid points", but derogatory insults at the center. If he is a referee himself, no doubt he would have tossed anyone yelling at him like he was yelling. Probably a couple others.
Parents really need to step back and look at the example they are setting for their children. I am sure this guy's daughter must be very proud of him.

by oldboot 05/03/12, 09:45 am

Lake Highland's finest - Page 2 Fake_r10

Can see why they were so upset

affraid

by Gunner9 05/03/12, 09:55 am

If the guy who was tossed is indeed a referee, the hearing will not go well.

by ballhead 05/03/12, 11:25 am

Gunner9 wrote:If the guy who was tossed is indeed a referee, the hearing will not go well.

But when he explains that the referee had called a very bad game and was, therefore, totally deserving of the abuse, and then makes the argument that since they weren't there to see the entire game, they have no right to utter an "uninformed opinion" on the incident, all will be forgiven.

by Refmike 05/03/12, 11:40 am

oldboot wrote:

Can see why they were so upset

I think I see the problem. He is a basketball referee.
With the facts observable in the photo, I would say it is a jump ball.
Rm

by Longing4agame 05/03/12, 11:46 am

ballhead wrote:
Gunner9 wrote:If the guy who was tossed is indeed a referee, the hearing will not go well.

But when he explains that the referee had called a very bad game and was, therefore, totally deserving of the abuse, and then makes the argument that since they weren't there to see the entire game, they have no right to utter an "uninformed opinion" on the incident, all will be forgiven.

You, sir/ma'am, are unbelievable. I'm hoping your response was sarcasm. While i've never been to a "hearing" my guess is they don't just take the opinion of one person as fact. My guess is there will be opportunity for all sides to tell their story at which point they will then be able to make an educated opinion. My whole point is you cannot make a judgement on a situation without knowing the big picture. A hearing allows you to get the big picture.

Relax. I doubt this goes any further than the banter on this forum.

by oldboot 05/03/12, 11:50 am

Refmike wrote:
oldboot wrote:

Can see why they were so upset

I think I see the problem. He is a basketball referee.
With the facts observable in the photo, I would say it is a jump ball.
Rm

Clearly, very confused - basketball ref on a football field trying to officiate a soccer game without pants. Maybe he took them off so he could run faster.

by Refmike 05/03/12, 11:58 am

or maybe he is late for his next game.

by newtothis 05/03/12, 12:13 pm

Longing4agame wrote:
ballhead wrote:
Gunner9 wrote:If the guy who was tossed is indeed a referee, the hearing will not go well.

But when he explains that the referee had called a very bad game and was, therefore, totally deserving of the abuse, and then makes the argument that since they weren't there to see the entire game, they have no right to utter an "uninformed opinion" on the incident, all will be forgiven.

You, sir/ma'am, are unbelievable. I'm hoping your response was sarcasm. While i've never been to a "hearing" my guess is they don't just take the opinion of one person as fact. My guess is there will be opportunity for all sides to tell their story at which point they will then be able to make an educated opinion. My whole point is you cannot make a judgement on a situation without knowing the big picture. A hearing allows you to get the big picture.

Relax. I doubt this goes any further than the banter on this forum.

It won't be one person's opinion as there were two ARs, a field marshall and an offical driving a golf cart all at the field at the time the man was ejected. Certainly he will get to voice his side, but if his defense is the referee was "bad" or the calls were "wrong" he will be looking at being banned from several games. To be honest I am not sure what kind of defense he could use to justify his belligerence.

by Gunners 05/03/12, 12:19 pm

When I got kicked out (mistaken identity!), there was no hearing or recourse of any kind. I had to pay a fine ($50 I think) and could not attend the next game. No opportunity to prove my innocence/hearing etc.

Have things changed?

edit, and for the record it was absolutely mistaken identity. The guy that should have been tossed still jokes about it to this day.

by ballhead 05/03/12, 12:23 pm

Longing4agame wrote:
ballhead wrote:
Gunner9 wrote:If the guy who was tossed is indeed a referee, the hearing will not go well.

But when he explains that the referee had called a very bad game and was, therefore, totally deserving of the abuse, and then makes the argument that since they weren't there to see the entire game, they have no right to utter an "uninformed opinion" on the incident, all will be forgiven.

You, sir/ma'am, are unbelievable. I'm hoping your response was sarcasm. While i've never been to a "hearing" my guess is they don't just take the opinion of one person as fact. My guess is there will be opportunity for all sides to tell their story at which point they will then be able to make an educated opinion. My whole point is you cannot make a judgement on a situation without knowing the big picture. A hearing allows you to get the big picture.

Relax. I doubt this goes any further than the banter on this forum.

Yes, it was sarcasm, but your apparent position that the referee's on-field performance could somehow be considered a mitigating factor for this jerk's behavior is what's really unbelievable. As I, and several others, have said, he acted like an ass and was booted for it. That's the bottom line, and I don't think anything the referee did on the pitch is going to factor in to the equation. You can't really believe that it will. When has it ever been left up to spectators to determine the competence of a referee, and if found lacking, they were allowed to then abuse the referee?

I would also guess that if they were to speak to any parents of the other team, they'd have a completely different opinion of how well the match was officiated, as would likely the ref crew.

My dd's team has suffered from very poorly officiated matches on more than one occasion, and, over the years, we've had parents ejected for acting like a jerks during the game. Not as bad as this dude, but pretty annoying. I didn't take up for them, they should have kept their mouths shut.

No need for me to relax. We haven't had anyone ejected lately. We're already relaxed.

I don't know if they do hearings for stuff like this, and frankly I hope they don't. I hope that you and others involved learn that it isn't worth it, and that it sets a bad example for the kids.

by bigtex75081 05/03/12, 12:27 pm

ballhead wrote:
Longing4agame wrote:
ballhead wrote:
Gunner9 wrote:If the guy who was tossed is indeed a referee, the hearing will not go well.

But when he explains that the referee had called a very bad game and was, therefore, totally deserving of the abuse, and then makes the argument that since they weren't there to see the entire game, they have no right to utter an "uninformed opinion" on the incident, all will be forgiven.

You, sir/ma'am, are unbelievable. I'm hoping your response was sarcasm. While i've never been to a "hearing" my guess is they don't just take the opinion of one person as fact. My guess is there will be opportunity for all sides to tell their story at which point they will then be able to make an educated opinion. My whole point is you cannot make a judgement on a situation without knowing the big picture. A hearing allows you to get the big picture.

Relax. I doubt this goes any further than the banter on this forum.

Yes, it was sarcasm, but your apparent position that the referee's on-field performance could somehow be considered a mitigating factor for this jerk's behavior is what's really unbelievable. As I, and several others, have said, he acted like an ass and was booted for it. That's the bottom line, and I don't think anything the referee did on the pitch is going to factor in to the equation. You can't really believe that it will. When has it ever been left up to spectators to determine the competence of a referee, and if found lacking, they were allowed to then abuse the referee?

I would also guess that if they were to speak to any parents of the other team, they'd have a completely different opinion of how well the match was officiated, as would likely the ref crew.

My dd's team has suffered from very poorly officiated matches on more than one occasion, and, over the years, we've had parents ejected for acting like a jerks during the game. Not as bad as this dude, but pretty annoying. I didn't take up for them, they should have kept their mouths shut.

No need for me to relax. We haven't had anyone ejected lately. We're already relaxed.

I don't know if they do hearings for stuff like this, and frankly I hope they don't. I hope that you and others involved learn that it isn't worth it, and that it sets a bad example for the kids.

IMO... If the guy is a referee, his punishment should probably be a little more severe than in a regular case. (They should probably pull his badge from him if he’s current.) An "off-duty" referee, above all other people on that sideline, should know better. He should have been trying to keep things calm and follow the proper channels instead of escalating the situation from the sideline.

by Its Me 05/03/12, 01:01 pm

If this guy was a referee then he should have followed the Code of Ethics:

Code of Ethics for Referees
(1) I will always maintain the utmost respect for the game of soccer.
(2) I will conduct myself honorably at all times and maintain the dignity of my position.
(3) I will always honor an assignment or any other contractual obligation.
(4) I will attend training meetings and clinics so as to know the Laws of the Game, their proper interpretation and their application.
(5) I will always strive to achieve maximum team work with my fellow officials.
(6) I will be loyal to my fellow officials and never knowingly promote criticism of them.
(7) I will be in good physical condition.
(8 ) I will control the players effectively by being courteous and considerate without sacrificing fairness.
(9) I will do my utmost to assist my fellow officials to better themselves and their work.
(10) I will not make statements about any games except to clarify an interpretation of the Laws of the Game.
(11) I will not discriminate against nor take undue advantage of any individual group on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin.
(12) I consider it a privilege to be a part of the U.S. Soccer Federation and my actions will reflect credit upon that organization and its affiliates.

He could have easily gone to the assignor on-site and asked them to monitor this game.
He could have asked the coach to send in an evaulation on the crew after the game.
He could have spoken to the referees after the game and addressed his concerns.
However, this is NO way for a referee to act on the sideline.

If he allowed another parent to be thrown out instead of stepping up and admitting it was him then he's a piece of crap.

by coachr 05/03/12, 01:57 pm

Its Me wrote:If this guy was a referee then he should have followed the Code of Ethics:

Code of Ethics for Referees
(1) I will always maintain the utmost respect for the game of soccer.
(2) I will conduct myself honorably at all times and maintain the dignity of my position.
(3) I will always honor an assignment or any other contractual obligation.
(4) I will attend training meetings and clinics so as to know the Laws of the Game, their proper interpretation and their application.
(5) I will always strive to achieve maximum team work with my fellow officials.
(6) I will be loyal to my fellow officials and never knowingly promote criticism of them.
(7) I will be in good physical condition.
(8 ) I will control the players effectively by being courteous and considerate without sacrificing fairness.
(9) I will do my utmost to assist my fellow officials to better themselves and their work.
(10) I will not make statements about any games except to clarify an interpretation of the Laws of the Game.
(11) I will not discriminate against nor take undue advantage of any individual group on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin.
(12) I consider it a privilege to be a part of the U.S. Soccer Federation and my actions will reflect credit upon that organization and its affiliates.

He could have easily gone to the assignor on-site and asked them to monitor this game.
He could have asked the coach to send in an evaulation on the crew after the game.
He could have spoken to the referees after the game and addressed his concerns.
However, this is NO way for a referee to act on the sideline.

If he allowed another parent to be thrown out instead of stepping up and admitting it was him then he's a piece of crap.

Sounds like his counterpart wasn't following rule number one by letting girls physically assault one another. However, off duty guy is in the wrong for not calling the police as are all the other parents watching. Physical assault is what it is and should be stopped. I'm just sick of all this douche on douche... I mean ref on ref hate.
What do refs do when they retire or get de-douched? Do they welcome people to the nearest Wally world?

by Its Me 05/03/12, 02:13 pm

Rudder wrote:It is very easy to come on this board, out of the moment and take the "higher road" of not yelling at the refs. Its a different thing when your daughter is slammed to the ground multiple times without the ref stepping in and controlling the game. It gets really hard when right after your daughter is two arm pushed to the ground from behind, her teammate is called for a shouldercharge as the two came together for a 50/50 ball (don't argue with the second foul, but where the heck was the ref on the first one). I personally think this "soccer is a physical sport" argument is crap and is whats holding our girls back from true development. Call the game very tight at the younger ages and force technical development. After the girls have grown into their bodies, developed their technical skills, and have good coordination, then start teaching them the physical part of the game.

On another note, I got to see both ref crews discussed in this thread yesterday. Though the guy at UTD did miss a few calls, he was no where near as bad as the crew at Moss. I think it is time to for them to hang up their whistles. The center couldn't keep up with the play at all, and him and the linesman got confused (?) on many throw in calls (if there isn't a member of the other team anywhere near the ball as its being kicked out, there's no way it can be off one of them!). And before you jump all over me for a bias, I didn't have a DD in either game. My daughters were playing in the games after these, so I watched while they warmed up.

There are great ref crews out there, I just wish we could see them more often in our games. I know the argument of too many games for too few refs. Since the "why don't you do it then" argument has been very ineffective to date, why don't we start debating the number of games side of the equation. Fewer teams in select, more teams playing in home rec programs. Would really help me out as my DDs would probably both be playing a lot closer to home

I agree that your DD should not be pushed to the ground from behind. "Most" forceable contact from behind should be called. Also, that depends on the age group. If it's U-11 I may call it a lot more than I will at U-19. Depending on the degree of contract from behind and if the player can maintain control in an advantage situation.

However the Soccer is a contact sport piece of crap isn't true. This is taking from the USSF "Advice to Referees" as to the Laws of a Foul. Page 61. In this statement they do define how the foul should be handled and not that you can just run over other kids. However, it is a contact spot.

Part C. Serious Foul Play and Violent Conduct
Soccer is a tough, combative, contact sport where the contest to gain possession of the ball should
nonetheless be fair and sporting. Serious Foul Play and the related offense of Violent Conduct are
strictly forbidden. They violate the Spirit of the Game and the referee must respond to them by
stringently applying the Laws of the Game: The punishment is sending-off the offending player (or
substitute in the case of Violent Conduct).

by Guest 05/03/12, 02:17 pm

Gunners wrote:When I got kicked out (mistaken identity!), there was no hearing or recourse of any kind. I had to pay a fine ($50 I think) and could not attend the next game. No opportunity to prove my innocence/hearing etc.

Have things changed?

edit, and for the record it was absolutely mistaken identity. The guy that should have been tossed still jokes about it to this day.

You should have made him pay the $50 Smile

by Shotshagger 05/03/12, 02:58 pm

Not sure why they're bothering with hearing. They'd be better off skipping straight to an optometrist.

by twotone 05/03/12, 03:08 pm

LHGCL ref assignor and ECNL ref assignor are two different people. it was said earlier that they are the same, but they are, in fact, different.

by Its Me 05/03/12, 03:49 pm

twotone wrote:LHGCL ref assignor and ECNL ref assignor are two different people. it was said earlier that they are the same, but they are, in fact, different.

This is true as to the different assignor.
However, they are for the most part the same referees for Classic, Lake Highlands, High school, and ENCL.

by newtothis 05/03/12, 04:08 pm

Shotshagger wrote:Not sure why they're bothering with hearing. They'd be better off skipping straight to an optometrist.

For the guy tossed? More like straight to a shrink..

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