Need some clarity from a referee

by maddad02 09/09/12, 09:27 pm

I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

EX 2) Team A has possession and is front of Team B goal with scoring opportunity. Before said player can shoot, the Referee notices a player from Team B is down on the field and immediately blows the whistle, negating any scoring opportunity for Team A. When play resumes, the referee instructs a player from Team A to kick the ball directly to the goalie for Team B so that Team B now has possession.

My first instinct was that one or both instance should've at least resulted in a dropkick opportunity, but like I said, I'm just not familiar enough to know - in Ex 2 I just couldn't see how that instance would merit a change of possession. If there's an experienced referee that can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

by Guest 09/09/12, 10:06 pm

maddad02 wrote:I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

It would have been the correct direction by the ref if Team B had kicked the ball out of bounds to help out the injured Team A player. But under your description Team A kicked the ball out of bounds but then also was awarded a throw-in. Are you sure you've described the event correctly?

EX 2) Team A has possession and is front of Team B goal with scoring opportunity. Before said player can shoot, the Referee notices a player from Team B is down on the field and immediately blows the whistle, negating any scoring opportunity for Team A. When play resumes, the referee instructs a player from Team A to kick the ball directly to the goalie for Team B so that Team B now has possession.

If the referee thought the injury to the Team B player was serious - especially a head injury - he can stop the play at his discretion. But the ref should have awarded a drop ball with no instruction to either team so that there was a chance Team A could regain advantage in the Team B goal area. Ref did not know protocol.

My first instinct was that one or both instance should've at least resulted in a dropkick opportunity, but like I said, I'm just not familiar enough to know - in Ex 2 I just couldn't see how that instance would merit a change of possession. If there's an experienced referee that can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

by maddad02 09/09/12, 10:11 pm

Xara wrote:
maddad02 wrote:I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

It would have been the correct direction by the ref if Team B had kicked the ball out of bounds to help out the injured Team A player. But under your description Team A kicked the ball out of bounds but then also was awarded a throw-in. Are you sure you've described the event correctly?

Yes, Team A kicked the ball out to stop play and was awarded the throw in but was instructed to throw it directly to a player from Team B. Like I said, super strange

EX 2) Team A has possession and is front of Team B goal with scoring opportunity. Before said player can shoot, the Referee notices a player from Team B is down on the field and immediately blows the whistle, negating any scoring opportunity for Team A. When play resumes, the referee instructs a player from Team A to kick the ball directly to the goalie for Team B so that Team B now has possession.

If the referee thought the injury to the Team B player was serious - especially a head injury - he can stop the play at his discretion. But the ref should have awarded a drop ball with no instruction to either team so that there was a chance Team A could regain advantage in the Team B goal area. Ref did not know protocol.

Ok thanks, that's what I thought.

My first instinct was that one or both instance should've at least resulted in a dropkick opportunity, but like I said, I'm just not familiar enough to know - in Ex 2 I just couldn't see how that instance would merit a change of possession. If there's an experienced referee that can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

by 02Dad 10/09/12, 07:05 am

maddad02 wrote:I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

EX 2) Team A has possession and is front of Team B goal with scoring opportunity. Before said player can shoot, the Referee notices a player from Team B is down on the field and immediately blows the whistle, negating any scoring opportunity for Team A. When play resumes, the referee instructs a player from Team A to kick the ball directly to the goalie for Team B so that Team B now has possession.

My first instinct was that one or both instance should've at least resulted in a dropkick opportunity, but like I said, I'm just not familiar enough to know - in Ex 2 I just couldn't see how that instance would merit a change of possession. If there's an experienced referee that can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

I'm fresh out of the Grade 8 USSF certification course so I can tell you by the books what should happen...

The referee should not involve themselves to that level during a game. It's up to the coach to teach what to do in those situations. If play is stopped for an injury while the ball is still in play, the restart is a drop ball. What happens after it is dropped should not be a concern of the referee.

Now, what actually happens can vary from one ref to the next.

by soccerman771 10/09/12, 07:05 am

Xara wrote:
maddad02 wrote:I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

It would have been the correct direction by the ref if Team B had kicked the ball out of bounds to help out the injured Team A player. But under your description Team A kicked the ball out of bounds but then also was awarded a throw-in. Are you sure you've described the event correctly?

EX 2) Team A has possession and is front of Team B goal with scoring opportunity. Before said player can shoot, the Referee notices a player from Team B is down on the field and immediately blows the whistle, negating any scoring opportunity for Team A. When play resumes, the referee instructs a player from Team A to kick the ball directly to the goalie for Team B so that Team B now has possession.

If the referee thought the injury to the Team B player was serious - especially a head injury - he can stop the play at his discretion. But the ref should have awarded a drop ball with no instruction to either team so that there was a chance Team A could regain advantage in the Team B goal area. Ref did not know protocol.

My first instinct was that one or both instance should've at least resulted in a dropkick opportunity, but like I said, I'm just not familiar enough to know - in Ex 2 I just couldn't see how that instance would merit a change of possession. If there's an experienced referee that can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

What he said. Plus - the referee has no say in what the teams do or how many people challenge for the drop ball. He/She can mitigate it by asking, do you want to throw back or kick back, but they cannot "make" either team do anything. Stopping the ball in front of goal for an injury, unless the defense has possessing is in bad form.

by bigtex75081 10/09/12, 07:19 am

maddad02 wrote:
Xara wrote:
maddad02 wrote:I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

It would have been the correct direction by the ref if Team B had kicked the ball out of bounds to help out the injured Team A player. But under your description Team A kicked the ball out of bounds but then also was awarded a throw-in. Are you sure you've described the event correctly?

Yes, Team A kicked the ball out to stop play and was awarded the throw in but was instructed to throw it directly to a player from Team B. Like I said, super strange

Team B had to kick it out. Otherwise, if Team A kicked it out, then Team B would have been given the throw-in. Instead, Team A took the throw-in and the referee told them to throw it to Team B. Somebody from Team B had kicked that ball out.

by Guest 10/09/12, 07:59 am

bigtex75081 wrote:
maddad02 wrote:
Xara wrote:
maddad02 wrote:I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

It would have been the correct direction by the ref if Team B had kicked the ball out of bounds to help out the injured Team A player. But under your description Team A kicked the ball out of bounds but then also was awarded a throw-in. Are you sure you've described the event correctly?

Yes, Team A kicked the ball out to stop play and was awarded the throw in but was instructed to throw it directly to a player from Team B. Like I said, super strange
Team B had to kick it out. Otherwise, if Team A kicked it out, then Team B would have been given the throw-in. Instead, Team A took the throw-in and the referee told them to throw it to Team B. Somebody from Team B had kicked that ball out.

That would be my guess on what actually took place, as well.

by maddad02 10/09/12, 11:19 am

Xara wrote:
bigtex75081 wrote:
maddad02 wrote:
Xara wrote:
maddad02 wrote:I was watching a game today and there were a couple calls that seemed strange to me. I don't know for a fact that they were incorrect so I was hoping someone with knowledge might clarify

EX 1) Team A has possession and is driving toward Team B goal. A player from Team A, away from the ball, goes down hard and does not get back up. Referee notices the downed player but does not stop play so Team A must kick the ball out of bounds to stop play in order to get player some attention. When play resumes, the referee directs a player from Team A to throw in directly to Team B so Team B now has possession

It would have been the correct direction by the ref if Team B had kicked the ball out of bounds to help out the injured Team A player. But under your description Team A kicked the ball out of bounds but then also was awarded a throw-in. Are you sure you've described the event correctly?

Yes, Team A kicked the ball out to stop play and was awarded the throw in but was instructed to throw it directly to a player from Team B. Like I said, super strange
Team B had to kick it out. Otherwise, if Team A kicked it out, then Team B would have been given the throw-in. Instead, Team A took the throw-in and the referee told them to throw it to Team B. Somebody from Team B had kicked that ball out.

That would be my guess on what actually took place, as well.

Yes, you would think that because it's the logical thing to think, but you'd be wrong. Because the referee wouldn't stop play, Team A's coach instructed his own team to kick it out in order to stop play so he could attend to his player. After the player was tended to, the referee cleared out both teams except for two girls, one from each team, and made Team A throw it directly to Team B so Team B would take possession and play resumed. I've seen a lot of soccer, but never two calls like that .

by Guest 10/09/12, 12:01 pm

Total choke by the referee in that instance. He changed the LOTG to fit what he deemed "fair" in his/her mind.

by Refmike 10/09/12, 12:41 pm

Xara wrote:Total choke by the referee in that instance. He changed the LOTG to fit what he deemed "fair" in his/her mind.

Xara, more like making up in his mind what he thinks is in the LOTG. Nobody can change LOTG except the IFAB in Switzerland and in the US, nobody can officially interpret the LOTG except USSF.

other comments.
Nobody except the referee can determin wwhen the whistle should be blown to stop play.

The referee cannot require any team to kick the ball out of play.

If the AR raised his flag to signal that there was a player down on the ground behind the CR, it may ahve been mistaken as an offside call. There was no mention of this, but it is not out of the realm of possibility. This possibility should ahve been discusssed in the pre-game talk that the referee team should have had.

I must say it was great to be back on the pitch this weekend after a long Summer layoff.
Rm

by Guest 10/09/12, 01:46 pm

Refmike wrote:
Xara wrote:Total choke by the referee in that instance. He changed the LOTG to fit what he deemed "fair" in his/her mind.

Xara, more like making up in his mind what he thinks is in the LOTG. Nobody can change LOTG except the IFAB in Switzerland and in the US, nobody can officially interpret the LOTG except USSF.

other comments.
Nobody except the referee can determin wwhen the whistle should be blown to stop play.

The referee cannot require any team to kick the ball out of play.

If the AR raised his flag to signal that there was a player down on the ground behind the CR, it may ahve been mistaken as an offside call. There was no mention of this, but it is not out of the realm of possibility. This possibility should ahve been discusssed in the pre-game talk that the referee team should have had.

I must say it was great to be back on the pitch this weekend after a long Summer layoff.
Rm

But even if the ref thought the AR was signaling an offside player, either one of the re-starts mentioned by the OP would still be completely wrong. The ref didn't know the rules in either case and substituted his own. You can call it making up his mind; I call it making things up. It's like changing lanes in an intersection. Driver: "Sorry, officer, I understood the law to mean that I could do it as long as I used my signal". Officer: "Okay. I understand. Here's your ticket for not knowing the law. Have a nice day".

by Blank77 10/09/12, 02:55 pm

Xara wrote: the OP would still be completely wrong.

Isn't this always true about the OP?

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