Influence of parents on their kids

3-4-3 wrote:

10sDad wrote:
check the position of the feet, and the extension of the elbow...its pretty obvious. AND - because my dd saw it coming and successfully deflected it....ITS SOMEHOW OK????? WTF???

No one said anything about it being ok. I said it isn't clear a foul occurred from this picture alone. I'd put money the parent of the other dd in the pic has a different version. The point is EVEN if you had a conclusive pic, it's AT BEST very poor taste to post pictures of 7 or 8-year-old children on a public forum for any negative purpose.

I generally like your posts so not going to demonize xara you. But I suspect most adults wouldn't want pics of their young child posted for negative discussion, and wouldn't do it to anyone else's kid.

10sDad wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

10sDad wrote:I posted this image a while ago...but it's relevant to your post here....

NO it's not relevant to this post. I thought it was totally classless the last time you posted this picture and tried to make a case your daughter was punched. Now you're posting the same picture again from a game that happened long ago to make a point about your DD getting punched in ulittle soccer. It's a still frame shot. One millisecond in time. Any parent who regularly photographs their kids with a decent cam gets tons of shots like these. They're frames capturing moments and can't reveal the context of what really happened. There's an entire genre of internet sports pics capturing still frames that appear wild or interesting in isolation, but aren't notable in the context of full motion.

Nothing in this single pic indicates the other kid intentionally struck your kid, and this time around you've admitted her opponent didn't actually hit your kid. Even if she DID, posting pictures of little kids on the internet and trying to call them out for fouling your daughter is....[insert superlative of choice].

check the position of the feet, and the extension of the elbow...its pretty obvious. AND - because my dd saw it coming and successfully deflected it....ITS SOMEHOW OK????? WTF???

Now...the relevancy is that the ref was not controlling the game, and allowing cheap shot after cheap shot to occur unchecked. It got worse as the game progressed because the team figured out they could get away with it. Luckily our team did not retaliate, as I have seen many times when older kids games get out of control (saw one degrade to an all out brawl between players/parents/etc. - cops were called). The ref's primary responsibility is the safety of the players. When blatant foul after blatent foul occurs without penalty, the players become tired of waiting for the ref to take control, and they start retaliating. In these situations, parents get to yapping, and the whole experience turns into a melee - simply because the referee did not control the game.
As stated earlier, our team did not retaliate, nor did things get out of hand - probably for that reason. Our team just took it and played through it. Soccer is a physical sport, and you are gonna get knocked around once in a while - but this stuff has no place - and when a referee is losing control of the game and thusly putting MY child at risk for serious injury from intentional punches/elbows/cleats up slides/etc...he/she is d@mn sure gonna hear it from me on the sideline...

3-4-3 wrote:

10sDad wrote:
check the position of the feet, and the extension of the elbow...its pretty obvious. AND - because my dd saw it coming and successfully deflected it....ITS SOMEHOW OK????? WTF???

No one said anything about it being ok. I said it isn't clear a foul occurred from this picture alone. I'd put money the parent of the other dd in the pic has a different version. The point is EVEN if you had a conclusive pic, it's AT BEST very poor taste to post pictures of 7 or 8-year-old children on a public forum for any negative purpose.

I generally like your posts so not going to demonize xara you. But I suspect most adults wouldn't want pics of their young child posted for negative discussion, and wouldn't do it to anyone else's kid.

10sDad wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

10sDad wrote:
check the position of the feet, and the extension of the elbow...its pretty obvious. AND - because my dd saw it coming and successfully deflected it....ITS SOMEHOW OK????? WTF???

No one said anything about it being ok. I said it isn't clear a foul occurred from this picture alone. I'd put money the parent of the other dd in the pic has a different version. The point is EVEN if you had a conclusive pic, it's AT BEST very poor taste to post pictures of 7 or 8-year-old children on a public forum for any negative purpose.

I generally like your posts so not going to demonize xara you. But I suspect most adults wouldn't want pics of their young child posted for negative discussion, and wouldn't do it to anyone else's kid.

You need to take off your raserose colored glasses. This has nothing to do with whether or not this happened. I suspect that you think the uniform can do no wrong, and even when presented with conclusive proof, you still deny it.

In response to the call for "silence from the sideline", my point has been all along that I, as a parent, am not going to sit silently on the sideline when this occurs multiple times in a game without the ref taking control. My vocal chords are gonna get a workout. If the feel-good, ref can do no wrong, new-age parenting posters here don't like it...it's not my problem. I would challenge even the quietest of parents to keep quiet during a game when this happens over and over to their little one...

I hold no animosity toward the little one throwing the elbow, and I am confident that the Liverpool coach(es) do not encourage this behavior - In fact, I am certain that they discourage it. When kids are put under pressure to perform, and faced with a challenge, they will do whatever they can to avoid "getting in trouble". Soccer is a rough sport, and you are going to get knocked around quite frequently - and its not uncommon for a player to get frustrated and attempt to apply any tactic available to them to gain the advantage over the player that is frustrating them. You had better be prepared to get some new bruises and bleed a bit, or you should pick another sport.

Athletics teaches us life-lessons through the concept of fouls, rules, and penalties that you can only accomplish what you have trained and prepared to do. If you "cheat", "bend the rules", act out of frustration, pull shirts, illegally gain an advantage, etc. you are penalized for it - or you "get in trouble". That's why we have referees. If you train harder than your opponent, chances are you will have a LEGAL advantage come game time.

slrsoccer wrote:

10sDad wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

10sDad wrote:
check the position of the feet, and the extension of the elbow...its pretty obvious. AND - because my dd saw it coming and successfully deflected it....ITS SOMEHOW OK????? WTF???

No one said anything about it being ok. I said it isn't clear a foul occurred from this picture alone. I'd put money the parent of the other dd in the pic has a different version. The point is EVEN if you had a conclusive pic, it's AT BEST very poor taste to post pictures of 7 or 8-year-old children on a public forum for any negative purpose.

I generally like your posts so not going to demonize xara you. But I suspect most adults wouldn't want pics of their young child posted for negative discussion, and wouldn't do it to anyone else's kid.

You need to take off your raserose colored glasses. This has nothing to do with whether or not this happened. I suspect that you think the uniform can do no wrong, and even when presented with conclusive proof, you still deny it.

In response to the call for "silence from the sideline", my point has been all along that I, as a parent, am not going to sit silently on the sideline when this occurs multiple times in a game without the ref taking control. My vocal chords are gonna get a workout. If the feel-good, ref can do no wrong, new-age parenting posters here don't like it...it's not my problem. I would challenge even the quietest of parents to keep quiet during a game when this happens over and over to their little one...

I hold no animosity toward the little one throwing the elbow, and I am confident that the Liverpool coach(es) do not encourage this behavior - In fact, I am certain that they discourage it. When kids are put under pressure to perform, and faced with a challenge, they will do whatever they can to avoid "getting in trouble". Soccer is a rough sport, and you are going to get knocked around quite frequently - and its not uncommon for a player to get frustrated and attempt to apply any tactic available to them to gain the advantage over the player that is frustrating them. You had better be prepared to get some new bruises and bleed a bit, or you should pick another sport.

Athletics teaches us life-lessons through the concept of fouls, rules, and penalties that you can only accomplish what you have trained and prepared to do. If you "cheat", "bend the rules", act out of frustration, pull shirts, illegally gain an advantage, etc. you are penalized for it - or you "get in trouble". That's why we have referees. If you train harder than your opponent, chances are you will have a LEGAL advantage come game time.

This is directly in line with how America thinks today, thus furthering the "wussification" of our society.

While I admire your honesty and your willingness to protect your child, you have to remember that you are a SPECTATOR at the event you are watching.

My questions to you would be, what is your child learning from hearing you scream at the refs constantly? Sports, much like the game of life is figuring out how to handle situations that do not lean in your favor. Maybe she baits the defender into winning a penalty, maybe she changes the way she needs to play against a particular player or team, or just maybe she decides to put 3 balls in the back of the net for the sweetest of revenge types.

While it is very difficult to ever "turn off" being a parent, you just have to in this situation. It is up to the coach (which you pay) to have the best interest of your child in mind during a game. In the situation you describe above and being the target of repeated violent play that goes uncalled, is it possible that YOU are the one that is looking through different colored glasses due to the fact it was YOUR child?

If what you said was 100% accurate and as a coach, I would tell the referee very casually that if the attempt to hurt my players continues, I will be forced to take my team off the field. The issue with that is that not many coaches have the stones to do that. Also, it is your right as a parent to remove your child from the field if you think that they are truly in danger, but very rarely does that happen.

However, continually yelling and screaming at the referee is not going to solve the situation and in fact has the distinct possibility of making it worse.

The issue as I see it is that too many parents feel that they are part of the game when all they really are is a ride to and from the game. If we start to challenge our kids to solve the problem on their own (in a sporting manner) I really believe that we will see how smart they really are, even at this age.

slrsoccer wrote:
The issue as I see it is that too many parents feel that they are part of the game when all they really are is a ride to and from the game.

RunsLikeWind wrote:

I see it more in the parents, like you said, that feel they are part of the game their daughter is in. As if they have some effect on the outcome by how loud they yell, or if they say "PASS IT, PASS IT" at the right time. Because the kids could never figure out to play without the parents yelling instructions during the games. I normally stand back and laugh when it is other teams but get pretty ticked at my teams parents when they do it.

The best players I have ever seen, ( ECNL, TOP ODP And College level players) their parents have been the quietest I have ever seen as well. They have a quiet confidence and know their kids are good and don't have to yell at them every three seconds.

slrsoccer wrote:

10sDad wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

10sDad wrote:
check the position of the feet, and the extension of the elbow...its pretty obvious. AND - because my dd saw it coming and successfully deflected it....ITS SOMEHOW OK????? WTF???

No one said anything about it being ok. I said it isn't clear a foul occurred from this picture alone. I'd put money the parent of the other dd in the pic has a different version. The point is EVEN if you had a conclusive pic, it's AT BEST very poor taste to post pictures of 7 or 8-year-old children on a public forum for any negative purpose.

I generally like your posts so not going to demonize xara you. But I suspect most adults wouldn't want pics of their young child posted for negative discussion, and wouldn't do it to anyone else's kid.

You need to take off your raserose colored glasses. This has nothing to do with whether or not this happened. I suspect that you think the uniform can do no wrong, and even when presented with conclusive proof, you still deny it.

In response to the call for "silence from the sideline", my point has been all along that I, as a parent, am not going to sit silently on the sideline when this occurs multiple times in a game without the ref taking control. My vocal chords are gonna get a workout. If the feel-good, ref can do no wrong, new-age parenting posters here don't like it...it's not my problem. I would challenge even the quietest of parents to keep quiet during a game when this happens over and over to their little one...

I hold no animosity toward the little one throwing the elbow, and I am confident that the Liverpool coach(es) do not encourage this behavior - In fact, I am certain that they discourage it. When kids are put under pressure to perform, and faced with a challenge, they will do whatever they can to avoid "getting in trouble". Soccer is a rough sport, and you are going to get knocked around quite frequently - and its not uncommon for a player to get frustrated and attempt to apply any tactic available to them to gain the advantage over the player that is frustrating them. You had better be prepared to get some new bruises and bleed a bit, or you should pick another sport.

Athletics teaches us life-lessons through the concept of fouls, rules, and penalties that you can only accomplish what you have trained and prepared to do. If you "cheat", "bend the rules", act out of frustration, pull shirts, illegally gain an advantage, etc. you are penalized for it - or you "get in trouble". That's why we have referees. If you train harder than your opponent, chances are you will have a LEGAL advantage come game time.

This is directly in line with how America thinks today, thus furthering the "wussification" of our society.

While I admire your honesty and your willingness to protect your child, you have to remember that you are a SPECTATOR at the event you are watching.

My questions to you would be, what is your child learning from hearing you scream at the refs constantly? Sports, much like the game of life is figuring out how to handle situations that do not lean in your favor. Maybe she baits the defender into winning a penalty, maybe she changes the way she needs to play against a particular player or team, or just maybe she decides to put 3 balls in the back of the net for the sweetest of revenge types.

While it is very difficult to ever "turn off" being a parent, you just have to in this situation. It is up to the coach (which you pay) to have the best interest of your child in mind during a game. In the situation you describe above and being the target of repeated violent play that goes uncalled, is it possible that YOU are the one that is looking through different colored glasses due to the fact it was YOUR child?

If what you said was 100% accurate and as a coach, I would tell the referee very casually that if the attempt to hurt my players continues, I will be forced to take my team off the field. The issue with that is that not many coaches have the stones to do that. Also, it is your right as a parent to remove your child from the field if you think that they are truly in danger, but very rarely does that happen.

However, continually yelling and screaming at the referee is not going to solve the situation and in fact has the distinct possibility of making it worse.

The issue as I see it is that too many parents feel that they are part of the game when all they really are is a ride to and from the game. If we start to challenge our kids to solve the problem on their own (in a sporting manner) I really believe that we will see how smart they really are, even at this age.

10sDad wrote:

slrsoccer wrote:

10sDad wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

10sDad wrote:
check the position of the feet, and the extension of the elbow...its pretty obvious. AND - because my dd saw it coming and successfully deflected it....ITS SOMEHOW OK????? WTF???

No one said anything about it being ok. I said it isn't clear a foul occurred from this picture alone. I'd put money the parent of the other dd in the pic has a different version. The point is EVEN if you had a conclusive pic, it's AT BEST very poor taste to post pictures of 7 or 8-year-old children on a public forum for any negative purpose.

I generally like your posts so not going to demonize xara you. But I suspect most adults wouldn't want pics of their young child posted for negative discussion, and wouldn't do it to anyone else's kid.

You need to take off your raserose colored glasses. This has nothing to do with whether or not this happened. I suspect that you think the uniform can do no wrong, and even when presented with conclusive proof, you still deny it.

In response to the call for "silence from the sideline", my point has been all along that I, as a parent, am not going to sit silently on the sideline when this occurs multiple times in a game without the ref taking control. My vocal chords are gonna get a workout. If the feel-good, ref can do no wrong, new-age parenting posters here don't like it...it's not my problem. I would challenge even the quietest of parents to keep quiet during a game when this happens over and over to their little one...

I hold no animosity toward the little one throwing the elbow, and I am confident that the Liverpool coach(es) do not encourage this behavior - In fact, I am certain that they discourage it. When kids are put under pressure to perform, and faced with a challenge, they will do whatever they can to avoid "getting in trouble". Soccer is a rough sport, and you are going to get knocked around quite frequently - and its not uncommon for a player to get frustrated and attempt to apply any tactic available to them to gain the advantage over the player that is frustrating them. You had better be prepared to get some new bruises and bleed a bit, or you should pick another sport.

Athletics teaches us life-lessons through the concept of fouls, rules, and penalties that you can only accomplish what you have trained and prepared to do. If you "cheat", "bend the rules", act out of frustration, pull shirts, illegally gain an advantage, etc. you are penalized for it - or you "get in trouble". That's why we have referees. If you train harder than your opponent, chances are you will have a LEGAL advantage come game time.

This is directly in line with how America thinks today, thus furthering the "wussification" of our society.

While I admire your honesty and your willingness to protect your child, you have to remember that you are a SPECTATOR at the event you are watching.

My questions to you would be, what is your child learning from hearing you scream at the refs constantly? Sports, much like the game of life is figuring out how to handle situations that do not lean in your favor. Maybe she baits the defender into winning a penalty, maybe she changes the way she needs to play against a particular player or team, or just maybe she decides to put 3 balls in the back of the net for the sweetest of revenge types.

While it is very difficult to ever "turn off" being a parent, you just have to in this situation. It is up to the coach (which you pay) to have the best interest of your child in mind during a game. In the situation you describe above and being the target of repeated violent play that goes uncalled, is it possible that YOU are the one that is looking through different colored glasses due to the fact it was YOUR child?

If what you said was 100% accurate and as a coach, I would tell the referee very casually that if the attempt to hurt my players continues, I will be forced to take my team off the field. The issue with that is that not many coaches have the stones to do that. Also, it is your right as a parent to remove your child from the field if you think that they are truly in danger, but very rarely does that happen.

However, continually yelling and screaming at the referee is not going to solve the situation and in fact has the distinct possibility of making it worse.

The issue as I see it is that too many parents feel that they are part of the game when all they really are is a ride to and from the game. If we start to challenge our kids to solve the problem on their own (in a sporting manner) I really believe that we will see how smart they really are, even at this age.

1. I don't yell at refs constantly - once in a while, yes - but only when the ref is doing a terrible job...and what is the result of your yelling? How many times have you seen a referee change the way he/she calls a game because some parents are yelling?
2. There is a big difference between "let them play" and things getting out of control - and the referees are accountable for that in my mind. I have seen referees take control of a seemingly uncontrollable game between two bitter rivals ready to go out with the intent to fight first and play second, and I have seen referees do such a poor job of controlling the game that a game that started with no bad blood ended up in a brawl between not only the players, but the sidelines as well. If a ref does not have the skill to reign in a volitile situation, then (s)he should call it very tight from the outset. "Letting them play" requires a very skilled ref (with eyes in the back of their head). Physical play is part of soccer, and quite often a clean physical play is met with dirty retaliation. A good ref allows the clean, but stops the dirty immediately. There is no question that you are going to get good refs and poor refs. This will remain the case throughout their entire playing career. It doesn't necessarily get any better at the higher levels. It is incumbent on the players and coach to understand how the game is going to be called and make adjustments themselves.
3. My reason for posting the picture was in response to all the new-ager's/Dr. Spock'ers like yourself that think all parents should be quiet no matter what happens. Even the quietest parent would say something in that situation. Especially if it wasn't the first or second instance in that game. You have no idea how old I am or what my experiences are. My guess is I have quite a few years on you.
4. None of the kids on my DD's team retaliated - they just kept playing...I think that says something about parenting. It does say something about the parenting, they should be proud of their kids in that example.
5. Finally, parents ARE part of the game. Welcome to the North Texas club system. Funded by parents, Organized by parents, Coached by parents in some cases, Snacks are brought by parents, Rides to practices/skills/games provided by parents, travel costs to out of town tournaments, etc, etc, etc. If the parents weren't involved (participating), there wouldn't be a club system. Tell me the parents are only a ride to the game again...boo. Here is the BIGGEST problem of all. There are too many that hold to this same philosophy. No matter how you slice it, you ARE NOT part of the game! You are a financial mean and support mechanism for your children and that is all, unless you are the coach also.
(actually, I remember one kid years ago that was shuttled around by his nanny, and once in a while an actual parent would show up..and they were very quiet (just like you think all parents should be) - the nanny was yelling though...and when the game was over, the boy said "hi" to the parent, and hugged the nanny...)

10sDad wrote:If a kid is doing anything competitively, chances are there is an involved parent. The child will cease to be competitive if the parent is either not involved or conversely, vicariously living through the child. So, as to this middle ground, there are different degrees of involvement.
Do I scold my child when she has a bad game? yep. Do I scold my child when she brings home a bad grade? yep. Do I praise her for good results? yep. If she has a game where she tried her hardest, but didn't get the results she wanted...I praise her for the effort. If she studies real hard for a test, asks for help from us, etc., and pulls an 80...so be it...we work on her development - together. I am an involved parent, and I am not ashamed of it.
As to yelling at refs...I expect refs to put in the same effort as my kids during the game. If they don't create a fair, controlled envrionment, I let them know about it. It only happens about once, maybe twice a season that we get one bad enough for me to yell at. Sure, there are missed calls here and there, but that happens. When it becomes unsafe or unfair is when I start to take issue. What I will not do is tell my DD that its OK to cheat if you are getting beaten...rules are not meant to be adjusted out of perceived "fairness". If we are dominiating a team, that doesn't mean the ref should call it tight against us, and loose for the other team...or vice versa. The laws of the game do not take score or time of possession into account when applying them. A foul is a foul, regardless - the laws are not subjective - referees should be totally objective.

I had the type of parents you described as the "ideal" - rarely did they attend, and when they did, they were quiet as a mouse. I was in Football, Wrestling, Track and competitive Skiing. I had a partial track scholarship awaiting me at Drake - but was not allowed to take it by my parents. I do none of those sports today...I didn't get any involvement or attention (or pushing for that matter) from the people I was most seeking attention and involvement from, and therefore lost interest. I am an involved parent...no apologies.

Xara wrote:

10sDad wrote:If a kid is doing anything competitively, chances are there is an involved parent. The child will cease to be competitive if the parent is either not involved or conversely, vicariously living through the child. So, as to this middle ground, there are different degrees of involvement.
Do I scold my child when she has a bad game? yep. Do I scold my child when she brings home a bad grade? yep. Do I praise her for good results? yep. If she has a game where she tried her hardest, but didn't get the results she wanted...I praise her for the effort. If she studies real hard for a test, asks for help from us, etc., and pulls an 80...so be it...we work on her development - together. I am an involved parent, and I am not ashamed of it.
As to yelling at refs...I expect refs to put in the same effort as my kids during the game. If they don't create a fair, controlled envrionment, I let them know about it. It only happens about once, maybe twice a season that we get one bad enough for me to yell at. Sure, there are missed calls here and there, but that happens. When it becomes unsafe or unfair is when I start to take issue. What I will not do is tell my DD that its OK to cheat if you are getting beaten...rules are not meant to be adjusted out of perceived "fairness". If we are dominiating a team, that doesn't mean the ref should call it tight against us, and loose for the other team...or vice versa. The laws of the game do not take score or time of possession into account when applying them. A foul is a foul, regardless - the laws are not subjective - referees should be totally objective.

I had the type of parents you described as the "ideal" - rarely did they attend, and when they did, they were quiet as a mouse. I was in Football, Wrestling, Track and competitive Skiing. I had a partial track scholarship awaiting me at Drake - but was not allowed to take it by my parents. I do none of those sports today...I didn't get any involvement or attention (or pushing for that matter) from the people I was most seeking attention and involvement from, and therefore lost interest. I am an involved parent...no apologies.

Scolding for a bad game... Sometimes I think there's hope for parents and then I read a post like this. Kids getting griped at on the ride home from a soccer game is a one-way ticket to them quitting the sport at around age 14. Do not pass "go". The statistics and proof are out there on this matter.

Parental involvement is one thing. Kids look to their parents for guidance; I get that. But we're talking about girls who play this sport year round at a high level with minimal breaks. Sometimes they are going to be a little tired. Sometimes they just won't be "into" the game. Sometimes the matchups make them look bad. But if any parent thinks for EVEN ONE SECOND that yelling from the sideline or griping after a game about a poor performance will make their child play better the next time around, he or she is truly delusional. It simply does not work out like that in the long haul. I've seen it way too many times to know better, and every bit of research on the matter supports my position.

slrsoccer wrote:Once again, I can respect what you are saying, but it seems you have confused the OP and the topic at hand.

The thread was about parents behavior on the sideline during a match. No one is arguing with you about giving your child a gentle kick in the pants if warranted. As a matter of fact, I would be no one on here would argue with you about a parents role in molding their kid and the different methods of doing so. Each kid is different and as parents it is our job to figure out how to best motivate them.

However how we choose to motivate our kids was never a topic in this discussion. The OP was about how we behave on the sidelines. I don't see how someone who does not scream on the sideline has any correlation to being involved or not involved. There are parents who are completely silent on the sideline and berate their kids behind closed doors. There are also those who expend all their energy screaming at kids during a game and will not bring up the game at all behind closed doors.

We are talking about how parents behave at the match. Please don't confuse the two.

The statement that stands out the most to me is "we work hard on her development together." While I may be taking that out of context, it seems that her development may mean more to you than to her. My point in all of this is development means nothing if she is not the one asking for more.

It's about confidence and wanting something for yourself and not to try and impress a coach, a parent or your peers. The ones that want to get better on their own are the ones that are going to be the most successful. The second I think one of my kids is doing something because they feel that I want them to is the second I will pull them from that activity.

SteamingBean wrote:NTSSA should require us to blow our hot air through vuvuzelas on the sidelines the entire game. Would solve a lot of issues.. no more arguments or confrontations; would provide a semblance of parental support and proper decibel levels for competitive play; and the sound would prepare all of our pre-pre-pro DDs for the World Cup stage, which they're obviously all destined. And if one's DD is bullied during the game, then one can blow his or her vuvu even harder (at one's discretion of course.) I can hear it now