Michael Brown tournament

4DaLuvofTheGM wrote:

adufresne wrote:

go99 wrote:they would not have done better without the players from white it would have been worse.  The players from white are good players but more importantly they raise the overall level of atheticism on the black team.  JK is not bringing up players from the goodness of his heart.  I am not a fan of his tactical game (and he is a little crazy) but he can coach and he knows what he is doing with his team and players.  I wouldn't be surprised to see those players also brought up for the DTS game and agains for the elite game during league play.  Everyone else I think they can physically overwhelm.

The specific players in this game and any other were/are immanent. Go99 is half right as usual. Different players likely wouldn't have made any difference in the outcome of the game. The reality is that the same girls that played vs Elite in PLD were playing Friday night.  The score is basically indicative of the game itself which is not always the case. However, the goal scored was a questionable, but called a goal nonetheless so it all worked out. As far as tactical game goes, I didn't see our forwards line up like race horses and take off running as our back line just booted over everyone's heads. I don't see how anyone can condone one and condemn the other. As far as I'm concerned it was a fairly even game.

I wonder what's your take on D'Feeters 1-0 win over FCD Premier? I'll like to hear that.  Everyone knows DFeeters play LP Elite much different than they do any other team. If you have to bring additional players to compete, there must be some form of concern about playing Elite with "Your original Black team roster". Just my point of view.

Unfortunately, I only saw about 10 minutes of that game so I don't have a lot to comment on. I know the same girls played basically the same roles as they did in the Elite game. Based on feedback that I got from our sideline I would have to say that my take is that the girls didn't show up to play and it showed, but I don't want to take anything away from FCD in saying that. Here's a news flash for everyone in soccernet land: we have 30 04 girls in our "camp" and any one of them could play on either team in any game. Our coach doesn't discuss when or why this happens or his gameplan for any specific game. Michael Brown was a showcase tournament. I thought it was a warmup/knock the rust off type approach for us. Elite is a really good team with some excellent individual players. In my opinion, for what it's worth, if we played Elite with "our original Black team roster", we would have similar results to the last 2 games. i really don't think we need players from the White team to "compete." Although I am happy to have them anytime.

adufresne wrote:

go99 wrote:they would not have done better without the players from white it would have been worse.  The players from white are good players but more importantly they raise the overall level of atheticism on the black team.  JK is not bringing up players from the goodness of his heart.  I am not a fan of his tactical game (and he is a little crazy) but he can coach and he knows what he is doing with his team and players.  I wouldn't be surprised to see those players also brought up for the DTS game and agains for the elite game during league play.  Everyone else I think they can physically overwhelm.

The specific players in this game and any other were/are immanent. Go99 is half right as usual. Different players likely wouldn't have made any difference in the outcome of the game. The reality is that the same girls that played vs Elite in PLD were playing Friday night.  The score is basically indicative of the game itself which is not always the case. However, the goal scored was a questionable, but called a goal nonetheless so it all worked out. As far as tactical game goes, I didn't see our forwards line up like race horses and take off running as our back line just booted over everyone's heads. I don't see how anyone can condone one and condemn the other. As far as I'm concerned it was a fairly even game.

No I am actually ALL right. You seem to read with "expectation" and not what is written as usual. The girls were the same girls as PLD and I made no claim otherwise. The goal was not questionable and was immediately called by the linesman. Tactically I never said anything about lined up like race horses and booting over the top. I don't believe I have ever accused JK of playing kickball and didn't do it this time either. PLD was a disappointing loss because elite got outplayed period. Friday was a disappointing win. The elite performance just wasn't good enough. So exactly what was the half I got wrong?

Go, I believe he/she was referring to your team playing kickball. I saw the 2nd half like Sheets and rarely saw a ball passed from a defender to a midfielder on your team. It looked like you kept trying the dump and chase game and Feet has too much speed for that.

I would agree with that. It started before this season that the team got lazy and started to look for the easy way out and just dump the ball over the top. It has continued thru the season and into today. So no I don't condone it, it sucks and just because you put elite in front of it doesn't make it suck any less. Many teams we can just outrun but feet is not one of those (ex RASE player was the fastest person on the field). Drives me crazy to see them connect 4 or 5 passes and then mindlesly boot the ball over the top for a 50/50 race with the forward. No pressure, no thought. just I don't want to bother to keep the ball.

So again if thats what she is metioning then it's GO colored glasses because I never made any claim to the opposite. So read what I wrote not what you think I mean. And unlike you and sheets I saw the first half too. Looked about the same. Running hard and kicking smashing their heads into a iron wall of defense instead of bothering to think

I saw some of your games last year and the ball movement was amazing. Just wondered what changed b/c I know the skill is there. You are probably correct. 10 year olds react rather than think many times.

yes last season I would have said the teams soccer was head and shoulders above the competition. Not sure what happened maybe a combination of things. It can be exhausting mentally to play soccer the "right" way and not every good player can. You have to play with your head up and be constantly moving and thinking at a very high pace. It's very mentally tiring and the faster more aggressive the opposition the harder you have to think. Or you can kick it hard and just use athleticism and muscle memory and thats way easier. You still see it in practice from some of the girls and occasionally in the game some impressive soccer makes a brief apperance. But I would say the blame lies all over the place. Parents, girls, the coach, NTX, pressure of a legacy causing the fear of losing. That last one being a big one. While the other teams are free to just play soccer they are under the pressure of must win. That can make you abandon principles for results.

with all that being said, we are well on our way to returning to former selves. You see it in practice and occasionally in games and it's coming along nicely. I think it's gonna be a very good second half of the season.

Futlballuh wrote:Go, I believe he/she was referring to your team playing kickball. I saw the 2nd half like Sheets and rarely saw a ball passed from a defender to a midfielder on your team. It looked like you kept trying the dump and chase game and Feet has too much speed for that.

Say bro, I never said anything kickball. You making me guilty by association there. Lol

Both of these teams are signed up for next month's LHGCL Spring RoundUp. Might we see a rematch?

http://www.txsoccer.net/t24880-lhgcl-spring-roundup-u11-applied-teams-list-04s

go99 wrote:yes last season I would have said the teams soccer was head and shoulders above the competition.  Not sure what happened maybe a combination of things.  It can be exhausting mentally to play soccer the "right" way and not every good player can.  You have to play with your head up and be constantly moving and thinking at a very high pace.  It's very mentally tiring and the faster more aggressive the opposition the harder you have to think.  Or you can kick it hard and just use athleticism and muscle memory and thats way easier. You still see it in practice from some of the girls and occasionally in the game some impressive soccer makes a brief apperance.  But I would say the blame lies all over the place.  Parents, girls, the coach, NTX, pressure of a legacy causing the fear of losing.  That last one being a big one.  While the other teams are free to just play soccer they are under the pressure of must win.  That can make you abandon principles for results.

And with that kind of pressure it makes a person wonder how many will still be playing soccer in 3 years...  hormone changes have a lot to do with whether that pressure is worth it anymore or not...

go99 wrote:yes last season I would have said the teams soccer was head and shoulders above the competition.  Not sure what happened maybe a combination of things.  It can be exhausting mentally to play soccer the "right" way and not every good player can.  You have to play with your head up and be constantly moving and thinking at a very high pace.  It's very mentally tiring and the faster more aggressive the opposition the harder you have to think.  Or you can kick it hard and just use athleticism and muscle memory and thats way easier. You still see it in practice from some of the girls and occasionally in the game some impressive soccer makes a brief apperance.  But I would say the blame lies all over the place.  Parents, girls, the coach, NTX, pressure of a legacy causing the fear of losing.  That last one being a big one.  While the other teams are free to just play soccer they are under the pressure of must win.  That can make you abandon principles for results.

So what you're saying is that behind the curtain is just a group of very good 11 year old soccer players?

go99 wrote:yes last season I would have said the teams soccer was head and shoulders above the competition.  Not sure what happened maybe a combination of things.  It can be exhausting mentally to play soccer the "right" way and not every good player can.  You have to play with your head up and be constantly moving and thinking at a very high pace.  It's very mentally tiring and the faster more aggressive the opposition the harder you have to think.  Or you can kick it hard and just use athleticism and muscle memory and thats way easier. You still see it in practice from some of the girls and occasionally in the game some impressive soccer makes a brief apperance.  But I would say the blame lies all over the place.  Parents, girls, the coach, NTX, pressure of a legacy causing the fear of losing.  That last one being a big one.  While the other teams are free to just play soccer they are under the pressure of must win.  That can make you abandon principles for results.

I usually agree with you on most items as you are one of the few that gets the big picture.  However, I can't let you slide on the statement above highlighted in red.
There is no way girls of this age know anything about establishing a legacy nor do most of them even know what the word means.  If there is any talk of legacy then it has to have trickled down from the parents.

Perhaps the statement should read...The amount of pressure the parents and coach's have put on the girls to establish a legacy and knowing what can happen to that legacy should they lose has had a real effect on the team.

I would almost agree with that except kids aren't stupid they can feel the pressure coming from the other team. They can hear the heightened sidline. they notice that a tie with DTS erupted in applause as if it was a win. Kids know they have won and want to continue to do so. They also no other teams want to beat them. Here is a test. Ask your DD if she wants to beat elite or if it's just another game?

I have an older son and he was not on that top team coming into select. They all wanted to beat that team and not because mom and dad bu because they are competitive. Sorry not buying that kids this age have no idea who they are playing and a game is just a game.

Nice redirect on that one Go.

it's not the pressure as the reason some won't be playing in 3yrs. It's because they are little girls and eventually they get old enough to decide what they want t spend their time on. Hate to break it too you but the kids playing high level soccer at 16, 17+ isn't normal. The kid who quits to explore many other things is. My son is still playing but nothing make me think my dd still will be and the second she wants to quit and do something else she can.

So no it's not the coach. It's not just the parents. It is the system we have in the US. Ranking teams (even in rec), excessive tournaments, gotsoccer, $3K clubs, ECNL, relegation and qualification at 10 and 11. I certianly didn't make it and don't even agree with it but it is what we have and it's naive to think the kids are oblivious

go99 wrote:I would almost agree with that except kids aren't stupid they can feel the pressure coming from the other teamparents on the sideline.  They can hear the heightened sideline. they notice that a tie with DTS erupted in applause from the DTS parents as if it was a win.  Kids know they have won and want to continue to do so.  They also no other teams want to beat them.  Here is a test.  Ask your DD if she wants to beat elite or if it's just another game?

I have an older son and he was not on that top team coming into select.  They all wanted to beat that team and not because mom and dad but because they are competitive.  Sorry not buying that kids this age have no idea who they are playing and a game is just a game.  

Well maybe this is exactly where the problem lies and helps make my point. The RASE parents have the feeling that every kid is out to beat them which is probably very true. That feeling migrates down to these 10 and 11 year olds without question. I may not be very attentive but I can't tell a difference from our girls or our sideline when we are playing RASE, Premiere, DT South, DT Scott, TX Spirit or D'Feeters. We want to beat them all and have yet to do so.

My point is that these kids really only sense added pressure from outside influences...heightened sidelines, coaches and parents. That is not to say that there are not rivalries, but I would lean toward Premiere, Spirit, Scott and D'Feeters as having more of a rivalry amongst themselves as they have played each other many more times than South or Elite. Yes, all these kids know if they won or lost, my point is that the parents reaction to those wins or losses has a much greater effect on the kids than who they lined up against.

All of my thoughts would be for not if RASE were a team that was absolutely untouchable and had beaten the other good teams time and time again. Fact of the matter is, they haven't played the others very often and since coming back to the age group have had a tie, a loss and a couple of close games. If they continue to throttle everyone in the league and tournaments over the next year I would change my tune and come to your line of thinking. Rivalries happen over time and that is where the internal pressure will come from.

There is a mid table team that we have beat a number of times, tied a number of times and lost to a number of times...I can promise our girls are more fired up for that game than any game against the top of the list.

go99 wrote:they would not have done better without the players from white it would have been worse.

 

go99 wrote:  So exactly what was the half I got wrong?

This part.

This went from DFeet using their "white players" to Elite playing kick ball. But yet, JK will not bring them when playing Elite. It's part of DFeets norm to have 18 players on the bench for a tournament. Let's see what happen in LH Roundup will there be two Grey teams.

4DaLuvofTheGM wrote:This went from DFeet using their "white players" to Elite playing kick ball. But yet, JK will not bring them when playing Elite. It's part of DFeets norm to have 18 players on the bench for a tournament. Let's see what happen in LH Roundup will there be two Grey teams.

Probably. We have White players every game. Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around LP Elite. Just another game for us. A little more difficult than most, but just another game.

adufresne wrote:

go99 wrote:they would not have done better without the players from white it would have been worse.

 

go99 wrote:  So exactly what was the half I got wrong?

This part.

Okay got it.  You are a better team without those pesky feet white players getting in the way.
My apologies I thought they helped improve the team. I had no idea JK was so generous to had out charity minutes.  Well maybe next time he will be more serious and not have those players along messing up your game.

just so I have a firm understanding, would black be a little better or dramtically better than grey?

go99 wrote:

adufresne wrote:

go99 wrote:they would not have done better without the players from white it would have been worse.

 

go99 wrote:  So exactly what was the half I got wrong?

This part.

Okay got it.  You are a better team without those pesky feet white players getting in the way.
My apologies I thought they helped improve the team. I had no idea JK was so generous to had out charity minutes.  Well maybe next time he will be more serious and not have those players along messing up your game.

just so I have a firm understanding, would black be a little better or dramtically better than grey?

go99 wrote:  You seem to read with expectation and not what was written.

Hypocritical much?

you said I was wrong about they would not have done better. That would also imply that they did worse

DTS sideline erupt as if it were a win...hmmmmm. Screw it I'll bite.

The game was a scorcher, the applause came from the fact that we were losing by 1 until the last few minutes and the girls kept playing....it was worth applauding. But I can't let yall get it twisted and I am speaking first hand, yes we wanted to win, felt like the girls had the win...they let it slip away. Everyone walked away disappointed to their vehicles, glad of no loss, but definitely not excited about tying Elite. Simple fact, the girls never placed Elite on a pedestal like others did or do I assume. And don't disregard some of the things said from the Elite sideline that game also, we have audio and visual evidence lol.

Basically to recap.... The tie wasn't special but the effort was appreciated....

And I can sense as the Elite wins mount, so do the confidence and post length grow of one particular Elite Spokesman...but never mind me just keep the party Go'n.

My post length was pretty long after a loss too. And I am sure if you go over that evidence MOST of the elite sideline was fairly quiet because they always are during the game. I have no idea what was said so not disregarding anything

I'm glad you bit though. Gave it awhile to see what you guys could come up with on the forum and it was a ghost town of of few boring post. Nobody wants to step on any toes, offend anyone, upset a coach or have a real opinion...BORING.

But I digress. It was an up and down game though and in my opinion a much better game than the Defeeters game. Looking forward to the 3/28 game. Like the DTS style better but think defeeters will take that game

Good to see you back on and bringing a little something

I'm always on....and I actually count on you Go...
I get skeptical of some games but I have learned not to underestimate the girls even when I can't understand coach, I rely on my little gladiatoras. So, with that being said, haven't seen LFS in a bit but I'm looking forward to it....hope the girls know what they are up against cause I never tell them what level their opponents are on.

maybe you guys will get lucky and only have to face Gray