TFC Cup 2012 - Blue

Blah-Blah-Blah wrote:

totalsoccer wrote:Maybe so, but my opinion would be to merge with feet so JM if he wants could make an ECNL run.

Totalsoccer,

So you think that Kicks will end up Feet, and Kicks (Club) will go away? This won't happen. Juan has too many Kicks teams from 06 (maybe even 07) up to the 01 age that are a custom to paying far less fees for what seems to be a similar or better product than most "Big" Clubs. You are saying JM could make an ECNL run? This would mean that Feet would hire JM, and he would.....what???? Have to give up the Kicks Franchise for 1 ECNL team? I don't think Feet or the Kicks family would be OK with JM coaching for both clubs at the same time. Not to mention, Kicks has boys teams also, so even the pipe dream that JM would take all of the Kicks teams over to Feet doesn't work. I could see JM entering his current 01 squad in ECNL tournaments and winning those tournaments just to "Stick it to the Man." So, lets see....Kicks Players would get the same exposure to College Coaches at a much smaller cost, and then go home with a Trophy and bragging rights over the "Top" squads. That is not far fetched. While I've had some fun with JM and Kicks in some of my pasts post, I do recognize Quality. The Kicks Product is Quality, and while ECNL is "supposedly" the best collection of players in one pool, it would be Great Drama to see a Team like Kicks, TFC, Spirit, Andro, enter these tournaments (not league play) and Compete with Goliath.

I agree with Total... Seen it before (other teams not specifically Kicks). Let's not forget the $$$ involved. Juan's not dumb, he knows he's got a great team and he knows he'll get the $$$ for Clubs trying to "buy" their way into ECNL. Not saying he'll move all of the teams, he could build a team and pass it off one at a time. For some reason i just got a "Rowdy" Chill remembering the old "May" days!

PS- Great run TFC BLUE! Great group of girls and families! AS for TFC 01 let it be. Parents want to pay the $$ for brand kind of coaching, let em! You don't like it, pay your $$ elsewhere and let it go!

Blah-Blah-Blah wrote:

totalsoccer wrote:Maybe so, but my opinion would be to merge with feet so JM if he wants could make an ECNL run.

Totalsoccer,

So you think that Kicks will end up Feet, and Kicks (Club) will go away? This won't happen. Juan has too many Kicks teams from 06 (maybe even 07) up to the 01 age that are a custom to paying far less fees for what seems to be a similar or better product than most "Big" Clubs. You are saying JM could make an ECNL run? This would mean that Feet would hire JM, and he would.....what???? Have to give up the Kicks Franchise for 1 ECNL team? I don't think Feet or the Kicks family would be OK with JM coaching for both clubs at the same time. Not to mention, Kicks has boys teams also, so even the pipe dream that JM would take all of the Kicks teams over to Feet doesn't work. I could see JM entering his current 01 squad in ECNL tournaments and winning those tournaments just to "Stick it to the Man." So, lets see....Kicks Players would get the same exposure to College Coaches at a much smaller cost, and then go home with a Trophy and bragging rights over the "Top" squads. That is not far fetched. While I've had some fun with JM and Kicks in some of my pasts post, I do recognize Quality. The Kicks Product is Quality, and while ECNL is "supposedly" the best collection of players in one pool, it would be Great Drama to see a Team like Kicks, TFC, Spirit, Andro, enter these tournaments (not league play) and Compete with Goliath.

Non ECNL clubs cannot enter ECNL sanctioned divisions.

Blah-Blah-Blah wrote:

totalsoccer wrote:Maybe so, but my opinion would be to merge with feet so JM if he wants could make an ECNL run.

Totalsoccer,

So you think that Kicks will end up Feet, and Kicks (Club) will go away? This won't happen. Juan has too many Kicks teams from 06 (maybe even 07) up to the 01 age that are a custom to paying far less fees for what seems to be a similar or better product than most "Big" Clubs. You are saying JM could make an ECNL run? This would mean that Feet would hire JM, and he would.....what???? Have to give up the Kicks Franchise for 1 ECNL team? I don't think Feet or the Kicks family would be OK with JM coaching for both clubs at the same time. Not to mention, Kicks has boys teams also, so even the pipe dream that JM would take all of the Kicks teams over to Feet doesn't work. I could see JM entering his current 01 squad in ECNL tournaments and winning those tournaments just to "Stick it to the Man." So, lets see....Kicks Players would get the same exposure to College Coaches at a much smaller cost, and then go home with a Trophy and bragging rights over the "Top" squads. That is not far fetched. While I've had some fun with JM and Kicks in some of my pasts post, I do recognize Quality. The Kicks Product is Quality, and while ECNL is "supposedly" the best collection of players in one pool, it would be Great Drama to see a Team like Kicks, TFC, Spirit, Andro, enter these tournaments (not league play) and Compete with Goliath.

No,no,no I was commenting on the TFC proposal! If he was to make a move my opinion the better move would be feet!

Although, I would not mind seeing JM's talents promoted in the ECNL divisions and tournaments.

totalsoccer wrote:Although, I would not mind seeing JM's talents promoted in the ECNL divisions and tournaments.

We already have TOO many ECNL Clubs in North Texas..

allhatnocattle wrote:sorry for the interruption, but is there a merger afoot between TFC and Kicks?

I certainly hope not. I hate the new TFC jerseys.

soccersounder wrote:

totalsoccer wrote:Although, I would not mind seeing JM's talents promoted in the ECNL divisions and tournaments.

We already have TOO many ECNL Clubs in North Texas..

JM at feet, ECNL

soccersounder wrote:

totalsoccer wrote:Although, I would not mind seeing JM's talents promoted in the ECNL divisions and tournaments.

We already have TOO many ECNL Clubs in North Texas..

Truth.

3-4-3,

Not trying to push buttons at all. We are good enough friends that I think you know me better than that! I tell it like I see it. We don't always agree, but I still respect your views - even when they are wrong.

With regard to KW and KG, I can't wrap my brain around the rebranding. What is the point? What was so wrong about KG and KW? Both excellent teams with great girls and parents. What it is the need to rename them? Call them what you will, the end product is the same.

Maybe KG wasn't a U-11 team last year officially, but everyone at Kicks referred to them as KG. it didn't even occur to me that KG was Kicks SC last year until you posted it, but I think you are correct.

On possession soccer, I was referring to our conversation when YOU said to ME that KW was playing more possession soccer than KG last year. I wasn't so certain, but you watched a lot more KG games than I did, so I took your word for it.

On New KG's current style of play, it is very different than last year from what I have seen and heard. Much more effective too. Great for them. I prefer a more possessive style, but it doesn't produce as many wins. We are trying to play it at Liverpool. Sometimes we achieve it; sometimes we don't, but we aspire to it, which I really like. Does it matter at this age? That is a theoretical point that I don't know the answer too. It seems a lot of teams play a more direct long ball style and are very effective at it. It produces a lot of pressure on the defense when a long ball comes in and the forwards and speedy mids crash the box. Does that hurt development in the long term? Do these teams suffer at some point? I have no idea, but I wonder about it.

Sweeper wrote:3-4-3,

Not trying to push buttons at all. We are good enough friends that I think you know me better than that! I tell it like I see it. We don't always agree, but I still respect your views - even when they are wrong.

With regard to KW and KG, I can't wrap my brain around the rebranding. What is the point? What was so wrong about KG and KW? Both excellent teams with great girls and parents. What it is the need to rename them? Call them what you will, the end product is the same.

Maybe KG wasn't a U-11 team last year officially, but everyone at Kicks referred to them as KG. it didn't even occur to me that KG was Kicks SC last year until you posted it, but I think you are correct.

On possession soccer, I was referring to our conversation when YOU said to ME that KW was playing more possession soccer than KG last year. I wasn't so certain, but you watched a lot more KG games than I did, so I took your word for it.

On New KG's current style of play, it is very different than last year from what I have seen and heard. Much more effective too. Great for them. I prefer a more possessive style, but it doesn't produce as many wins. We are trying to play it at Liverpool. Sometimes we achieve it; sometimes we don't, but we aspire to it, which I really like. Does it matter at this age? That is a theoretical point that I don't know the answer too. It seems a lot of teams play a more direct long ball style and are very effective at it. It produces a lot of pressure on the defense when a long ball comes in and the forwards and speedy mids crash the box. Does that hurt development in the long term? Do these teams suffer at some point? I have no idea, but I wonder about it.

Sorry Sweep - you're reaching now. I said Kicks White played more possession soccer than Kicks SC last year. They did....and they had to. They didn't have the horses SC had up and down the roster, and there was no way they could've played the same style as SC.

I'm on record discussing the difficulty my DD had coming into a team that expected players to attack off the dribble. You and I discussed that Kicks SC's style and JM's expectations on that team required players to be comfortable taking on and beating players 1v1, and my DD coming from a team with a different style and lacking that attacking confidence - took a good while to adjust. She already knew how to find feet; she brought that with her from Flanagan. She didn't have the confidence or skill to carry the ball in tight spaces though. So while I felt she would've had an easier time playing with Kicks White who moved the ball more with passing, it was better for her overall development to stretch and learn to do what the girls on SC could do. I had that same conversation with multiple folks...including JM. That's a big part of why we let the DD go to Kicks in the first place.

But if you're claiming I said anything about Kicks SC playing long ball last year, I'm afraid my respect for you has to take a major hit.

As far as debating U12 Kicks Gold's style and vetting it in detail against U11 Kicks White which no longer exists...someone else may oblige, but it's just not worth it for me. No good could come of it, and it feels like you're trying to diminish a group that work their butts off to make hay for your DD's new team.

Duca is a good coach, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he has his girls playing possession soccer. If they are, people will notice on their own without you having to demean anyone else. And if I see them looking like Swansea you bet I'll give a shout out to the progress they've made since I saw them last summer.

3-4-3 wrote:

Sweeper wrote:3-4-3,

Not trying to push buttons at all. We are good enough friends that I think you know me better than that! I tell it like I see it. We don't always agree, but I still respect your views - even when they are wrong.

With regard to KW and KG, I can't wrap my brain around the rebranding. What is the point? What was so wrong about KG and KW? Both excellent teams with great girls and parents. What it is the need to rename them? Call them what you will, the end product is the same.

Maybe KG wasn't a U-11 team last year officially, but everyone at Kicks referred to them as KG. it didn't even occur to me that KG was Kicks SC last year until you posted it, but I think you are correct.

On possession soccer, I was referring to our conversation when YOU said to ME that KW was playing more possession soccer than KG last year. I wasn't so certain, but you watched a lot more KG games than I did, so I took your word for it.

On New KG's current style of play, it is very different than last year from what I have seen and heard. Much more effective too. Great for them. I prefer a more possessive style, but it doesn't produce as many wins. We are trying to play it at Liverpool. Sometimes we achieve it; sometimes we don't, but we aspire to it, which I really like. Does it matter at this age? That is a theoretical point that I don't know the answer too. It seems a lot of teams play a more direct long ball style and are very effective at it. It produces a lot of pressure on the defense when a long ball comes in and the forwards and speedy mids crash the box. Does that hurt development in the long term? Do these teams suffer at some point? I have no idea, but I wonder about it.

Sorry Sweep - you're reaching now. I said Kicks White played more possession soccer than Kicks SC last year. They did....and they had to. They didn't have the horses SC had up and down the roster, and there was no way they could've played the same style as SC.

I'm on record discussing the difficulty my DD had coming into a team that expected players to attack off the dribble. You and I discussed that Kicks SC's style and JM's expectations on that team required players to be comfortable taking on and beating players 1v1, and my DD coming from a team with a different style and lacking that attacking confidence - took a good while to adjust. She already knew how to find feet; she brought that with her from Flanagan. She didn't have the confidence or skill to carry the ball in tight spaces though. So while I felt she would've had an easier time playing with Kicks White who moved the ball more with passing, it was better for her overall development to stretch and learn to do what the girls on SC could do. I had that same conversation with multiple folks...including JM. That's a big part of why we let the DD go to Kicks in the first place.

But if you're claiming I said anything about Kicks SC playing long ball last year, I'm afraid my respect for you has to take a major hit.

As far as debating U12 Kicks Gold's style and vetting it in detail against U11 Kicks White which no longer exists...someone else may oblige, but it's just not worth it for me. No good could come of it, and it feels like you're trying to diminish a group that work their butts off to make hay for your DD's new team.

Duca is a good coach, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he has his girls playing possession soccer. If they are, people will notice on their own without you having to demean anyone else. And if I see them looking like Swansea you bet I'll give a shout out to the progress they've made since I saw them last summer.

Making an observation on a style of play after you brought up the topic is not an attempt to demean anyone. If I wanted to demean someone, I would create an alias and just do it. Why in the world would I do it using this ID????

I stand by my statement - which isn't even a negative statement. You just take it as such, which is more a reflection of your soccer style biases and sensitivities to Kicks than the negativity of my statement.

As I said before, the new Kicks Gold is a great team and is deservedly winning D2. I expect them to win D2 and will be happy for them when they do. I know that was a very important goal for them at the start of the season and it will be great to see them do it. There are a number of girls on the team from last year who easily could have jumped to D1 clubs, but stuck it out when spots were not available on the old KG and hopefully they will be rewarded at the end of the season.

BTW, don't imply that I have any ax to grind with Kicks. We asked for a release only AFTER all of my DD's best friends on the team decided to leave. If those girls would have stayed, we would have happily played again this season.

Sweeper wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

Sweeper wrote:3-4-3,

Not trying to push buttons at all. We are good enough friends that I think you know me better than that! I tell it like I see it. We don't always agree, but I still respect your views - even when they are wrong.

With regard to KW and KG, I can't wrap my brain around the rebranding. What is the point? What was so wrong about KG and KW? Both excellent teams with great girls and parents. What it is the need to rename them? Call them what you will, the end product is the same.

Maybe KG wasn't a U-11 team last year officially, but everyone at Kicks referred to them as KG. it didn't even occur to me that KG was Kicks SC last year until you posted it, but I think you are correct.

On possession soccer, I was referring to our conversation when YOU said to ME that KW was playing more possession soccer than KG last year. I wasn't so certain, but you watched a lot more KG games than I did, so I took your word for it.

On New KG's current style of play, it is very different than last year from what I have seen and heard. Much more effective too. Great for them. I prefer a more possessive style, but it doesn't produce as many wins. We are trying to play it at Liverpool. Sometimes we achieve it; sometimes we don't, but we aspire to it, which I really like. Does it matter at this age? That is a theoretical point that I don't know the answer too. It seems a lot of teams play a more direct long ball style and are very effective at it. It produces a lot of pressure on the defense when a long ball comes in and the forwards and speedy mids crash the box. Does that hurt development in the long term? Do these teams suffer at some point? I have no idea, but I wonder about it.

Sorry Sweep - you're reaching now. I said Kicks White played more possession soccer than Kicks SC last year. They did....and they had to. They didn't have the horses SC had up and down the roster, and there was no way they could've played the same style as SC.

I'm on record discussing the difficulty my DD had coming into a team that expected players to attack off the dribble. You and I discussed that Kicks SC's style and JM's expectations on that team required players to be comfortable taking on and beating players 1v1, and my DD coming from a team with a different style and lacking that attacking confidence - took a good while to adjust. She already knew how to find feet; she brought that with her from Flanagan. She didn't have the confidence or skill to carry the ball in tight spaces though. So while I felt she would've had an easier time playing with Kicks White who moved the ball more with passing, it was better for her overall development to stretch and learn to do what the girls on SC could do. I had that same conversation with multiple folks...including JM. That's a big part of why we let the DD go to Kicks in the first place.

But if you're claiming I said anything about Kicks SC playing long ball last year, I'm afraid my respect for you has to take a major hit.

As far as debating U12 Kicks Gold's style and vetting it in detail against U11 Kicks White which no longer exists...someone else may oblige, but it's just not worth it for me. No good could come of it, and it feels like you're trying to diminish a group that work their butts off to make hay for your DD's new team.

Duca is a good coach, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he has his girls playing possession soccer. If they are, people will notice on their own without you having to demean anyone else. And if I see them looking like Swansea you bet I'll give a shout out to the progress they've made since I saw them last summer.

Making an observation on a style of play after you brought up the topic is not an attempt to demean anyone. If I wanted to demean someone, I would create an alias and just do it. Why in the world would I do it using this ID????

I stand by my statement - which isn't even a negative statement. You just take it as such, which is more a reflection of your soccer style biases and sensitivities to Kicks than the negativity of my statement.

As I said before, the new Kicks Gold is a great team and is deservedly winning D2. I expect them to win D2 and will be happy for them when they do. I know that was a very important goal for them at the start of the season and it will be great to see them do it. There are a number of girls on the team from last year who easily could have jumped to D1 clubs, but stuck it out when spots were not available on the old KG and hopefully they will be rewarded at the end of the season.

BTW, don't imply that I have any ax to grind with Kicks. We asked for a release only AFTER all of my DD's best friends on the team decided to leave. If those girls would have stayed, we would have happily played again this season.

I fully expected you to stand by your opinion of Kicks' style. You've never been willing to back down from a pointless debate anymore than I. But claiming your comment wasn't negative is disingenuous (AT BEST). What I didn't expect was you to stand by an implication I told you Kicks plays long ball on a sideline.

You're also telling half-truths surrounding the situation with KW. I could set the record straight and call you out on a public forum, and if we were back in U10 days I'd probably be tactless enough to do it. At this point we've matured enough to know where it all ends. I'll pass, and I wish your DD all the best. For you, I wish to trip over a futsal ball and break an ankle.

3-4-3 wrote:

Sweeper wrote:

3-4-3 wrote:

Sweeper wrote:3-4-3,

Not trying to push buttons at all. We are good enough friends that I think you know me better than that! I tell it like I see it. We don't always agree, but I still respect your views - even when they are wrong.

With regard to KW and KG, I can't wrap my brain around the rebranding. What is the point? What was so wrong about KG and KW? Both excellent teams with great girls and parents. What it is the need to rename them? Call them what you will, the end product is the same.

Maybe KG wasn't a U-11 team last year officially, but everyone at Kicks referred to them as KG. it didn't even occur to me that KG was Kicks SC last year until you posted it, but I think you are correct.

On possession soccer, I was referring to our conversation when YOU said to ME that KW was playing more possession soccer than KG last year. I wasn't so certain, but you watched a lot more KG games than I did, so I took your word for it.

On New KG's current style of play, it is very different than last year from what I have seen and heard. Much more effective too. Great for them. I prefer a more possessive style, but it doesn't produce as many wins. We are trying to play it at Liverpool. Sometimes we achieve it; sometimes we don't, but we aspire to it, which I really like. Does it matter at this age? That is a theoretical point that I don't know the answer too. It seems a lot of teams play a more direct long ball style and are very effective at it. It produces a lot of pressure on the defense when a long ball comes in and the forwards and speedy mids crash the box. Does that hurt development in the long term? Do these teams suffer at some point? I have no idea, but I wonder about it.

Sorry Sweep - you're reaching now. I said Kicks White played more possession soccer than Kicks SC last year. They did....and they had to. They didn't have the horses SC had up and down the roster, and there was no way they could've played the same style as SC.

I'm on record discussing the difficulty my DD had coming into a team that expected players to attack off the dribble. You and I discussed that Kicks SC's style and JM's expectations on that team required players to be comfortable taking on and beating players 1v1, and my DD coming from a team with a different style and lacking that attacking confidence - took a good while to adjust. She already knew how to find feet; she brought that with her from Flanagan. She didn't have the confidence or skill to carry the ball in tight spaces though. So while I felt she would've had an easier time playing with Kicks White who moved the ball more with passing, it was better for her overall development to stretch and learn to do what the girls on SC could do. I had that same conversation with multiple folks...including JM. That's a big part of why we let the DD go to Kicks in the first place.

But if you're claiming I said anything about Kicks SC playing long ball last year, I'm afraid my respect for you has to take a major hit.

As far as debating U12 Kicks Gold's style and vetting it in detail against U11 Kicks White which no longer exists...someone else may oblige, but it's just not worth it for me. No good could come of it, and it feels like you're trying to diminish a group that work their butts off to make hay for your DD's new team.

Duca is a good coach, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he has his girls playing possession soccer. If they are, people will notice on their own without you having to demean anyone else. And if I see them looking like Swansea you bet I'll give a shout out to the progress they've made since I saw them last summer.

Making an observation on a style of play after you brought up the topic is not an attempt to demean anyone. If I wanted to demean someone, I would create an alias and just do it. Why in the world would I do it using this ID????

I stand by my statement - which isn't even a negative statement. You just take it as such, which is more a reflection of your soccer style biases and sensitivities to Kicks than the negativity of my statement.

As I said before, the new Kicks Gold is a great team and is deservedly winning D2. I expect them to win D2 and will be happy for them when they do. I know that was a very important goal for them at the start of the season and it will be great to see them do it. There are a number of girls on the team from last year who easily could have jumped to D1 clubs, but stuck it out when spots were not available on the old KG and hopefully they will be rewarded at the end of the season.

BTW, don't imply that I have any ax to grind with Kicks. We asked for a release only AFTER all of my DD's best friends on the team decided to leave. If those girls would have stayed, we would have happily played again this season.

I fully expected you to stand by your opinion of Kicks' style. You've never been willing to back down from a pointless debate anymore than I. But claiming your comment wasn't negative is disingenuous (AT BEST). What I didn't expect was you to stand by an implication I told you Kicks plays long ball on a sideline.

You're also telling half-truths surrounding the situation with KW. I could set the record straight and call you out on a public forum, and if we were back in U10 days I'd probably be tactless enough to do it. At this point we've matured enough to know where it all ends. I'll pass, and I wish your DD all the best. For you, I wish to trip over a futsal ball and break an ankle.

You didn't tell me KG played long balls. You said they played less possession. I misunderstood what you were saying evidentially. That was my bad.

Not sure what you mean by the half truths on leaving Kicks. You can call me out in person the next time I see you at IAD.

Agreed that neither of us is very good at letting an argument go. You missed your calling as a lawyer. Peace.