Club Pass Players

me?obsessed? wrote:

jae wrote:I agree with both points made in response to my post.  However, since I obviously did not make my point clear, I will try again.

My point was mainly for '01s.  When ECNL clubs' top '01 teams leave LH next year to play ECNL, Solar, FC Dallas, and D'Feeters will not have LH D1 teams next year based on current standings and current situation.  Also, based on their U14 ECNL team roster sizes of 27. 27. 27, 24, and 22, I am assuming that they are likely to have similarly large roster sizes for their '01 ECNL teams.  So, I am also assuming that they would like to have LH D1 teams, as opposed to LH D2 or D3 teams, next year on which to dual-roster some/many of their ECNL players to give them quality match playing opportunities.

My point is that Solar and FC Dallas should use the Club Pass System this year to ensure that their current LH D2 teams get promoted to LH D1 next year,  and that D'Feeters should acquire a team that will be in LH D1 next year.  Solar and FC Dallas could also acquire but since they have LH D2 teams and since Club Pass System is in place, they do not have to acquire.  I am not suggesting that they are or they will do what I am suggesting (no conspiracy theory here).  I am merely suggesting they could and they should.

Player pass rule won't have an impact on what happens with ECNL, other then some players not wanting to come down and help out their sister teams for fear of injury (as some have stated already).  The ECNL impacts for having a D1 team next year will come from team/player movement across clubs.

Not to continue the '01's highjacking this thread, but the easier solution (and you will see this happen) for the '01 FC Dallas, Solar, and 'Feet would be to just go and make a bunch of promises to teams that will be D1 next year so they'll change clubs.  Core of the ECNL team gets formed with the best of both teams, players from the D1 team that were NOT going to be with an ECNL club now have opportunity to play ECNL, you've got your extra players with D1 dual rostering.  Much easier for a club to make empty promises then to an entire team to pull them over then to try and get promoted through player pass rule.  Think about the '01 teams that will be D1 next year with ECNL potential already as a team and have several high-level ECNL capable players - Andromeda, Spirit, Rush, Kicks (SC & Gold) to name the most obvious.  Guarantee D'Feeters are trying like hell right now to pull one of those teams over for next year.  Remember what Pulp did last year with his teams???  My guess that same thing will happen with either Andromeda or Rush, or one of the Sting teams will bail and go elsewhere because of saturation of teams limiting players potential to be added to ECNL roster (Hilton, Angell, or Guzman).

Take note '02s...........................same will happen to you next year.

Don't think that will happen either me?obsessed. Those teams you listed might lose players, but teams will stay with the clubs. Half those teams just changed clubs last year (Sting Angell, Sting Guzman, and Rush), Andro & Spirit coaches have a pretty high level of loyalty to their clubs (Powers isn't leaving the club he helped reorganize and Quinn's been with Spirit for years), and JM would have to merge his entire club with one of the big 5 (yeah - that's not going to happen. If it did, there'd be a mutiny in Kicks Nation). I know 'feet are VERY active in trying to add that 2nd team in D1, but it won't happen. Might get a D2/D3 team to bite though.

Once again, I am not suggesting that the clubs are or will use the Club Pass System to ensure that they will have at least one LH D1 '01 teams next year. I only suggested that they could and they should.

First of all, I do not think they are that smart (just kidding, of course). Much more importantly, I think the coaches within the clubs, on their own, will only do what is best for them as opposed to what is best for the club (especially if they will not be coaching the ECNL teams). It is up to each club to coordinate across the teams and across the coaches, which will be difficult at best based on the egos involved. It may be much easier to acquire teams.

We need to consider how most top players think at teenage years. A U13 top player, and when I say top player, I'm talking those two or three game changers SOME clubs have that could show up to a D2/D3 game and completely alter the outcome by their very presence.

There aren't many of them in the first place.

Those players at U13 DON'T WANT TO PLAY meaningless games against weaker competition. Risk injury for a bye? The club can't force them. Their parents are telling the club to PLAY THEM UP IN ECNL, not send them to D2/D3.

IMO this is main reason vast majority of top '01 players have abandoned ODP (of those that ever tried out)...they see their team practices have far more comp vs what they see when they head out to ODP.

So you're not going to see the game changers sent down to a lower division trying to help the club earn a bye. I'm sure someone will do it, but I suspect it will be the exception.

What we're more likely to see, are the mid-tier D1 players that really aren't all that far ahead of the top players in other divisions. Those players could use the touches, and it's mainly their game savvy and ability to handle pressure that separates them from lower division players. They may be slightly better technically, but they definitely aren't in a completely different class athletically.

You need more than 3 of them to make a massive impact on the outcome of D2 games. And if a team misses out on promotion because 3 mid-tier D1 players showed up, they probably aren't ready to be promoted anyway. If promoted, they'd face whole teams full of them the next year.

A solid team truly good enough will get their deserved results against a few club passed players. If they don't, it becomes just another scapegoat...along with the ref, the weather, the injured player, the scheduling, the tall grass...etc.

jae wrote:Once again, I am not suggesting that the clubs are or will use the Club Pass System to ensure that they will have at least one LH D1 '01 teams next year.  I only suggested that they could and they should.

First of all, I do not think they are that smart (just kidding, of course).  Much more importantly, I think the coaches within the clubs, on their own, will only do what is best for them as opposed to what is best for the club (especially if they will not be coaching the ECNL teams).  It is up to each club to coordinate across the teams and across the coaches, which will be difficult at best based on the egos involved.  It may be much easier to acquire teams.

Now THERE are a bunch of statements that I agree with 100% Jae, and a prime reason why all of the player pass conspiracies won't prove out...  

4-3-3 wrote:We need to consider how most top players think at teenage years. A U13 top player, and when I say top player, I'm talking those two or three game changers SOME clubs have that could show up to a D2/D3 game and completely alter the outcome by their very presence.

There aren't many of them in the first place.

Those players at U13 DON'T WANT TO PLAY meaningless games against weaker competition. Risk injury for a bye? The club can't force them. Their parents are telling the club to PLAY THEM UP IN ECNL, not send them to D2/D3.

IMO this is main reason vast majority of top '01 players have abandoned ODP (of those that ever tried out)...they see their team practices have far more comp vs what they see when they head out to ODP.

So you're not going to see the game changers sent down to a lower division trying to help the club earn a bye. I'm sure someone will do it, but I suspect it will be the exception.

What we're more likely to see, are the mid-tier D1 players that really aren't all that far ahead of the top players in other divisions. Those players could use the touches, and it's mainly their game savvy and ability to handle pressure that separates them from lower division players. They may be slightly better technically, but they definitely aren't in a completely different class athletically.

You need more than 3 of them to make a massive impact on the outcome of D2 games. And if a team misses out on promotion because 3 mid-tier D1 players showed up, they probably aren't ready to be promoted anyway. If promoted, they'd face whole teams full of them the next year.

A solid team truly good enough will get their deserved results against a few club passed players. If they don't, it becomes just another scapegoat...along with the ref, the weather, the injured player, the scheduling, the tall grass...etc.

+1   

Lots of 01 thoughts on here and I am clueless on that. However I took a look at 02 schedules for D1 and D2. Someone said D1 teams could use player pass to help keep a lower team in D1. So let's look at Sting. All if Higg and Rezai's games are on the same day. Why would Higg give up a playrer to help Rezaie? He wouldn't! Plus Rezaie looks pretty solid to stay D1 anyway. I could list each club but it's the same scenario for all. All the games are on the same day so not likely any passes will be used.

OK. So let's look at D2. I used Sting again since I had already written down their schedules for my D1 analysis. Parker and Dunstan both are pretty much eliminated from the possibility of moving up to D1. Fever has that sealed. So and neither team look to be in danger of being relegated to D3 either. So not much reason to need a player pass. BUT assuming they did I did some research. There are three games that do not conflict with D1 schedules. One was last weekend and Parker and Dunstan both played teams they could easily beat. This coming weeks is the next one. Again I think both teams should be able to win on their own. The last game is when Parker and Dunstan play each other. So which one should be helped? Should Higg give his players to Parker or Dunstan? Neither team will change divisions with a win.

I am going to look at the rest of the teams too but I expect similar results. Don't see player pass being much if a game changer in 02.

Here is the bottom line as I see it:

1) Player pass is a positive development for big clubs with multiple teams in the same age bracket. Options are always a great thing to have.

2) LH clearly prefers to advantage the big clubs over the small clubs. People point out financial reasons but I doubt that its that. More likely, big clubs offer better stability for the league. Or maybe the league officials are all connected to big clubs. Or both.

3) The level of abuse will probably be minimal. Or, better put, it isn't going to be easy to coordinate the result you need even if you try. Not that many difference making studs to play around with.

4) The most likely abuse will be higher ranked teams sending down ringers to make a difference in a close match, not in a top vs bottom matchup.

5) No one is going to wait for the final weeks. Points are points in promotion, staying safe, or demotion. Parents think end of season but most coaches realize no time like the present if any given week offers an opportunity.

Doesn't look like there are any D1 games today. Wonder how many club pass players will be playing down today?

Sure someone has already looked? Anyone know and what teams have them

OK.  Here's the scenario...

Sting '01 Hilton entered today in 3rd place in U13 D2. In good position to move up to D1 next year when the ECNL teams leave, but by no means a lock yet.

This morning, they played Tx. Spirit North '01, who is currently in 1st Place in D2.  A win or draw against TSN would be very big in helping to lock down a D1 spot next year for Sting H.

Sting H currently has 3 players who are injured and will miss most or all of the Spring season.

Sting has 2 D1 '01 teams. Neither of those teams plays today.

This the perfect storm, isn't it?  I mean surely Kenny Medina was on the phone this week telling Guzman to send his top striker and Flanny to send a couple of his studs down to help little sis Hilton secure that precious extra spot in D1 for Big Bad Blue next year, right?

TSN doesn't have similar resources to counter, and Sting has plausible deniability ("We were just sending players to sub for Hilton's injured players.")

So how many club pass players did Sting H use today???  ZERO

(p.s. That giant hissing sound you hear is the air rushing out of the hole in Scoregazm's conspiracy balloon before it even gets off the ground).  

bwgophers wrote:OK.  Here's the scenario...

Sting '01 Hilton entered today in 3rd place in U13 D2. In good position to move up to D1 next year when the ECNL teams leave, but by no means a lock yet.

This morning, they played Tx. Spirit North '01, who is currently in 1st Place in D2.  A win or draw against TSN would be very big in helping to lock down a D1 spot next year for Sting H.

Sting H currently has 3 players who are injured and will miss most or all of the Spring season.

Sting has 2 D1 '01 teams. Neither of those teams plays today.

This the perfect storm, isn't it?  I mean surely Kenny Medina was on the phone this week telling Guzman to send his top striker and Flanny to send a couple of his studs down to help little sis Hilton secure that precious extra spot in D1 for Big Bad Blue next year, right?

TSN doesn't have similar resources to counter, and Sting has plausible deniability ("We were just sending players to sub for Hilton's injured players.")

So how many club pass players did Sting H use today???  ZERO

(p.s. That giant hissing sound you hear is the air rushing out of the hole in Scoregazm's conspiracy balloon before it even gets off the ground).  

Wrong forum bud, pretty sure this is the 02's forum, which is who I was referring to. Could care less how it is used and abused in the 01 age group. So unless you know any word in the 02's plug the hissing hole. Great info on the 01's though....

Just simply wondering.

scoregazam wrote:

bwgophers wrote:OK.  Here's the scenario...

Sting '01 Hilton entered today in 3rd place in U13 D2. In good position to move up to D1 next year when the ECNL teams leave, but by no means a lock yet.

This morning, they played Tx. Spirit North '01, who is currently in 1st Place in D2.  A win or draw against TSN would be very big in helping to lock down a D1 spot next year for Sting H.

Sting H currently has 3 players who are injured and will miss most or all of the Spring season.

Sting has 2 D1 '01 teams. Neither of those teams plays today.

This the perfect storm, isn't it?  I mean surely Kenny Medina was on the phone this week telling Guzman to send his top striker and Flanny to send a couple of his studs down to help little sis Hilton secure that precious extra spot in D1 for Big Bad Blue next year, right?

TSN doesn't have similar resources to counter, and Sting has plausible deniability ("We were just sending players to sub for Hilton's injured players.")

So how many club pass players did Sting H use today???  ZERO

(p.s. That giant hissing sound you hear is the air rushing out of the hole in Scoregazm's conspiracy balloon before it even gets off the ground).  

Wrong forum bud, pretty sure this is the 02's forum, which is who I was referring to. Could care less how it is used and abused in the 01 age group. So unless you know any word in the 02's plug the hissing hole. Great info on the 01's though....

Just simply wondering.

Oh, I knew exactly which forum and thread I was posting in.

Awesome.....so any handy stats for the 02's. Again I am just wondering how many players moved down to "help out with injuries" from D1.

I may be completely off base (which would not be the first time....) and I have no problems saying so. Only time will tell if teams abuse the advantage LH has given them. I am sure there are a couple coaches out their that aren't afraid to go with what they got. But also think there are some that will take advantage of the rent a player option that is in effect. Which again if all teams can't take advantage of this (big clubs and independents) it is an unfair advantage.

G. Club Pass Players Lake Highlands Girls Classic League interpretation of the “spirit of the rule” The LHGCL board of directors believes that the rule was incorporated in order to fulfill two basic needs:         
1) Foster the development of players by        allowing them to participate within their own club at a higher level of competition without the commitment of a roster transfer.

How is playing down from D1 to D2 or D2 down to D3 in league play, considered "a higher level of competition? Again that is why have divisions... I also hate that injuries can be a deciding factor of a game, but the independents have to deal with injuries also. LH wants to stand behind their league rules..... or just apply the ones they want? Heard someone say recently, if you want to make it fair, make it so the independent clubs can trade players. At least that gives them the possibility of finding some help also.

2) To assist teams that may be short sided due to injury, illness, or other commitments.  
It is in this spirit that the board of directors has adopted the following rule for Club Pass Players:  
     1. A “Club Pass Player” is defined as a Player that meets all of the following conditions: a. The Club Pass Player shall be a North Texas State Soccer Association       (“NTSSA”) Registered Competitive Player; b. The Club Pass Player shall be a listed on an NTSSA Competitive Team’s Roster (this team referred to as the “Rostered Team” herein); c. The Rostered Team shall be a member of a NTSSA Competitive Club.
     2. A Club Pass Player may play League games for other teams within their Club (referred to as “Receiving Teams” herein) under all of the following restrictions: a. A Club Pass Player may not “play down” for a team in a younger age group (e.g., an under-15 Club Pass Player may not play on an under-14 Receiving Team); b. A Club Pass Player may appear on one and only one Game Day Roster on a given day;

scoregazam wrote:G. Club Pass Players Lake Highlands Girls Classic League interpretation of the “spirit of the rule” The LHGCL board of directors believes that the rule was incorporated in order to fulfill two basic needs:         
1) Foster the development of players by        allowing them to participate within their own club at a higher level of competition without the commitment of a roster transfer.

How is playing down from D1 to D2 or D2 down to D3 in league play, considered "a higher level of competition? Again that is why have divisions...  I also hate that injuries can be a deciding factor of a game, but the independents have to deal with injuries also.  LH wants to stand behind their league rules..... or just apply the ones they want? Heard someone say recently, if you want to make it fair, make it so the independent clubs can trade players.  At least that gives them the possibility of finding some help also.

2) To assist teams that may be short sided due to injury, illness, or other commitments.  
It is in this spirit that the board of directors has adopted the following rule for Club Pass Players:  
     1. A “Club Pass Player” is defined as a Player that meets all of the following conditions: a. The Club Pass Player shall be a North Texas State Soccer Association       (“NTSSA”) Registered Competitive Player; b. The Club Pass Player shall be a listed on an NTSSA Competitive Team’s Roster (this team referred to as the “Rostered Team” herein); c. The Rostered Team shall be a member of a NTSSA Competitive Club.
     2. A Club Pass Player may play League games for other teams within their Club (referred to as “Receiving Teams” herein) under all of the following restrictions: a. A Club Pass Player may not “play down” for a team in a younger age group (e.g., an under-15 Club Pass Player may not play on an under-14 Receiving Team); b. A Club Pass Player may appear on one and only one Game Day Roster on a given day;

To respond to your first question, it might be considered a higher level of competition for a bench player to get significant playing time at a more important point in a D2 game than in garbage time in a D1 game.

So what you're saying is that there should be two sets of rules.  One for large clubs, and one for small clubs.  Obviously, you can't do that.  If the independents should be able to trade players so should the large clubs.  All a small club needs to use the club pass is to create multiple teams. (I know its not that easy, but there's nothing to say they can't do it.)

Frankly, I don't like the way the rule is written today.  I don't believe it will be abused the way you seem to believe it will, but I still don't like it.  That said, you're expending a great deal of energy in a lost cause.  The rule won't change for the time being, even if you have anecdotal evidence that there is abuse going on.  It would be highly unlikely that they would change rules in mid-season.

Instead of beating this horse now, I'd suggest you take a hard look at the end of the season at what did happen (versus what you think might happen), and if you still believe it was abused, take your facts and opinions to your age group commissioner, and make your case.  There is a much greater chance that the rule is tweaked/rejected before the fall season than now.

Kudos LH for finally catching up with the rest of the country in this aspect.

scoregazam wrote:

bwgophers wrote:OK.  Here's the scenario...

Sting '01 Hilton entered today in 3rd place in U13 D2. In good position to move up to D1 next year when the ECNL teams leave, but by no means a lock yet.

This morning, they played Tx. Spirit North '01, who is currently in 1st Place in D2.  A win or draw against TSN would be very big in helping to lock down a D1 spot next year for Sting H.

Sting H currently has 3 players who are injured and will miss most or all of the Spring season.

Sting has 2 D1 '01 teams. Neither of those teams plays today.

This the perfect storm, isn't it?  I mean surely Kenny Medina was on the phone this week telling Guzman to send his top striker and Flanny to send a couple of his studs down to help little sis Hilton secure that precious extra spot in D1 for Big Bad Blue next year, right?

TSN doesn't have similar resources to counter, and Sting has plausible deniability ("We were just sending players to sub for Hilton's injured players.")

So how many club pass players did Sting H use today???  ZERO

(p.s. That giant hissing sound you hear is the air rushing out of the hole in Scoregazm's conspiracy balloon before it even gets off the ground).  

Wrong forum bud, pretty sure this is the 02's forum, which is who I was referring to. Could care less how it is used and abused in the 01 age group. So unless you know any word in the 02's plug the hissing hole. Great info on the 01's though....

Just simply wondering.

I heard that Sting coaches were told in a meeting that they were not to abuse the player pass rule. It seems their coaches have enough pride to try to win with their team. Texans seem to have no such pride, however, as I see that they are already pushing D1 players down to lower divisions.

aTmAg wrote:

scoregazam wrote:

bwgophers wrote:OK.  Here's the scenario...

Sting '01 Hilton entered today in 3rd place in U13 D2. In good position to move up to D1 next year when the ECNL teams leave, but by no means a lock yet.

This morning, they played Tx. Spirit North '01, who is currently in 1st Place in D2.  A win or draw against TSN would be very big in helping to lock down a D1 spot next year for Sting H.

Sting H currently has 3 players who are injured and will miss most or all of the Spring season.

Sting has 2 D1 '01 teams. Neither of those teams plays today.

This the perfect storm, isn't it?  I mean surely Kenny Medina was on the phone this week telling Guzman to send his top striker and Flanny to send a couple of his studs down to help little sis Hilton secure that precious extra spot in D1 for Big Bad Blue next year, right?

TSN doesn't have similar resources to counter, and Sting has plausible deniability ("We were just sending players to sub for Hilton's injured players.")

So how many club pass players did Sting H use today???  ZERO

(p.s. That giant hissing sound you hear is the air rushing out of the hole in Scoregazm's conspiracy balloon before it even gets off the ground).  

Wrong forum bud, pretty sure this is the 02's forum, which is who I was referring to. Could care less how it is used and abused in the 01 age group. So unless you know any word in the 02's plug the hissing hole. Great info on the 01's though....

Just simply wondering.

I heard that Sting coaches were told in a meeting that they were not to abuse the player pass rule.  It seems their coaches have enough pride to try to win with their team.  Texans seem to have no such pride, however, as I see that they are already pushing D1 players down to lower divisions.

No big deal since Texans are not breaking any rules. Kicks in '01 also does it and has been doing it openly for years. Sting does not have much of an incentive since they already have, and will have, multiple teams in D1.

If I'm a coach, I'd be embarrassed to have to grab another coach's players in order to not get relegated (or to move up). I'd like to be able to do so on my own coaching ability. If I'm a player, I'd also like to be able to prove myself rather than grab better players to replace me.

aTmAg wrote:

I heard that Sting coaches were told in a meeting that they were not to abuse the player pass rule.  It seems their coaches have enough pride to try to win with their team.  Texans seem to have no such pride, however, as I see that they are already pushing D1 players down to lower divisions.

This is spin. Sting doesn't have any more "pride" than anyone else. They'll go get players to help them win wherever they can find them...same as everyone else.

If you're suggesting Sting bigs will not allow the club pass rule to be used for their teams I call BS...if Big Blue were against the rule, LH would never have implemented it in the first place.

As far as I can tell, Sting hasn't done it and Texans have. There is the '01 example above and I know that sting north '02 apparently did not have any and they are hair away from being relegated. Proof it's in the pudding.

ballhead wrote:

scoregazam wrote:G. Club Pass Players Lake Highlands Girls Classic League interpretation of the “spirit of the rule” The LHGCL board of directors believes that the rule was incorporated in order to fulfill two basic needs:         
1) Foster the development of players by        allowing them to participate within their own club at a higher level of competition without the commitment of a roster transfer.

How is playing down from D1 to D2 or D2 down to D3 in league play, considered "a higher level of competition? Again that is why have divisions...  I also hate that injuries can be a deciding factor of a game, but the independents have to deal with injuries also.  LH wants to stand behind their league rules..... or just apply the ones they want? Heard someone say recently, if you want to make it fair, make it so the independent clubs can trade players.  At least that gives them the possibility of finding some help also.

2) To assist teams that may be short sided due to injury, illness, or other commitments.  
It is in this spirit that the board of directors has adopted the following rule for Club Pass Players:  
     1. A “Club Pass Player” is defined as a Player that meets all of the following conditions: a. The Club Pass Player shall be a North Texas State Soccer Association       (“NTSSA”) Registered Competitive Player; b. The Club Pass Player shall be a listed on an NTSSA Competitive Team’s Roster (this team referred to as the “Rostered Team” herein); c. The Rostered Team shall be a member of a NTSSA Competitive Club.
     2. A Club Pass Player may play League games for other teams within their Club (referred to as “Receiving Teams” herein) under all of the following restrictions: a. A Club Pass Player may not “play down” for a team in a younger age group (e.g., an under-15 Club Pass Player may not play on an under-14 Receiving Team); b. A Club Pass Player may appear on one and only one Game Day Roster on a given day;

To respond to your first question, it might be considered a higher level of competition for a bench player to get significant playing time at a more important point in a D2 game than in garbage time in a D1 game.

So what you're saying is that there should be two sets of rules.  One for large clubs, and one for small clubs.  Obviously, you can't do that.  If the independents should be able to trade players so should the large clubs.  All a small club needs to use the club pass is to create multiple teams. (I know its not that easy, but there's nothing to say they can't do it.)

Frankly, I don't like the way the rule is written today.  I don't believe it will be abused the way you seem to believe it will, but I still don't like it.  That said, you're expending a great deal of energy in a lost cause.  The rule won't change for the time being, even if you have anecdotal evidence that there is abuse going on.  It would be highly unlikely that they would change rules in mid-season.

Instead of beating this horse now, I'd suggest you take a hard look at the end of the season at what did happen (versus what you think might happen), and if you still believe it was abused, take your facts and opinions to your age group commissioner, and make your case.  There is a much greater chance that the rule is tweaked/rejected before the fall season than now.

I agree with gazam.... keep beating the dead horse. Someone has to or the big clubs will continue to drown out the independents with unfair tactics. I talked to two coaches today, and they still weren't aware that LH had changed the rule allowing players to move from downwards. Were the memos only sent to the big clubs?,........ Seeing they are the only ones that get lucky enough to have an unfair competitive advantage. Again, solid work LH.

aTmAg wrote:As far as I can tell, Sting hasn't done it and Texans have. There is the '01 example above and I know that sting north '02 apparently did not have any and they are hair away from being relegated. Proof it's in the pudding.

The rule isn't intended to be used to keep a team from relegation. If a team intends that, they're abusing the spirit of the rule. But it's been two weeks, and you're claiming moral superiority for Sting because, as far as you know, none of the Sting teams has used a club pass player...yet? Because of pride you say? Sting coaches only want to use "their" players? It's pure comedy.

If I remember correctly, Sting has used ECNL players on their USYS state cup teams (as have others), dual rosters players in LH league games (like everyone else), actively recruits players from other teams (like everyone else), recruits entire teams when their in house teams aren't cutting it (like everyone else), and even rosters players who live and train in other states to help them win important games (only a few do that).

Sting is a great brand with some great coaches and teams, but equating the non-use of this rule with "sting pride" needs to be put back on the PR shelf where it came from.

Rooney13 wrote:
I agree with gazam.... keep beating the dead horse.  Someone has to or the big clubs will continue to drown out the independents with unfair tactics.  I talked to two coaches today, and they still weren't aware that LH had changed the rule allowing players to move from downwards.  Were the memos only sent to the big clubs?,........ Seeing they are the only ones that get lucky enough to have an unfair competitive advantage.  Again, solid work LH.    

And you think a few people complaining on a message board about something that might happen will stop the big clubs from "drowning out the independents with unfair tactics"?  There is zero chance of it making any difference at this point in time.

To have any chance of success, I think someone would need to be able to offer some meaningful examples of how and what occurred, and how it was abusive, and get that information to the LHGCL board for consideration before the fall season.

From reading these threads, I don't even think there's a clear consensus as to whether the rule is liked or not, assuming that LHGCL is going for a parental consensus (which I don't think they are).

Keep in mind that the rule was originally introduced by US Youth Soccer, was then passed by North Texas Soccer, and only then passed by LHGCL.  It wasn't some rule that they dreamed up so that the big clubs could have a big advantage over the small ones.

I have an older daughter who has played against Beau's team for years now. Those ECNL players on his team are dual rostered all year long. Sting dual rosters ECNL players, not to cheat in the state cup, but because the substitution rules in ECNL would keep some talented players from ever seeing the field at all. If they didn't do that, it would be a huge disservice to those girls. No club should be given grief for this practice. It would be far worse to take their money otherwise.

The Texans are clearly using the rule to keep teams from being regulated in LH. As of this time sting has not.

Sting has used the player pass rule this year as well. It was used last week in the '03 division where Sting Gutierrez was without its keeper for their mid-week game against LP Elite. Sting G borrowed Sting Hilton's keeper which I would say is a good use of the rule. A keeper got some additional work against a good opponent, no field player had to burn minutes in goal and Sting G won the game.

That's not abusing the rule. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that.