Club Pass Players

That's not abusing the rule. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that.

That's not abusing the rule but it is an unfair competitive advantage for large clubs over independents.  If an independent had the same GK problem they would have to use a field player.   

Where I would draw the line is whether it is good for the players or not. Is it good for a field player to have to play goalie? Usually not. Is it good for a 2nd string goalie on another team to play the entire game for a different team? Probably so.

Is it good for the Texans to have D1 ringers play for struggling D2 teams? Yes. Is it good for the Texan players? Heck no. The ringers would be better served playing against higher competition and the D2 girls who ride the bench are clearly not served at all.

aTmAg wrote:Where I would draw the line is whether it is good for the players or not.  Is it good for a field player to have to play goalie?  Usually not.  Is it good for a 2nd string goalie on another team to play the entire game for a different team?  Probably so.

Is it good for the Texans to have D1 ringers play for struggling D2 teams?  Yes.  Is it good for the Texan players?  Heck no.  The ringers would be better served playing against higher competition and the D2 girls who ride the bench are clearly not served at all.

I agree with that 100%...is it good for the players or not. But you as a dyed in the wool Sting supporter don't appear to have the objectivity and insight required to make that determination on behalf of Texan players and parents. You can recognize the value of ECNL players playing down in LH (when Sting does it), but cannot fathom how a D1 player playing down a division could be anything but a club using ringers to win byes. Your rationale? Others don't have the Sting "Pride" and their coaches have no shame. It's incredible given that anyone with two open eyes can see the trend of Sting's top teams being largely composed of players formed somewhere other than Sting.

You did a great job carrying the water defending B.Coralli when that thread was the topic here...so good you even had me coming way from that thread thinking the Coralli issue was much ado about nothing. But no amount of bulldoggedness is going to convince many that Sting uses a different moral compass than anyone else regarding deployment of players.

I am quite sure all clubs will be using this rule in one way or another in the near future. One would like to think a club would not abuse the rule just to try and save a bye in D1, D2, etc. However, given the current soccer landscape, I think we would be foolish to assume clubs won't do exactly that. The more teams a club has in LH, the more players it can attract. Regardless of what you would think about how this should be ran to cater to the kids, in the end, it is a business.

4-3-3 wrote:

aTmAg wrote:Where I would draw the line is whether it is good for the players or not.  Is it good for a field player to have to play goalie?  Usually not.  Is it good for a 2nd string goalie on another team to play the entire game for a different team?  Probably so.

Is it good for the Texans to have D1 ringers play for struggling D2 teams?  Yes.  Is it good for the Texan players?  Heck no.  The ringers would be better served playing against higher competition and the D2 girls who ride the bench are clearly not served at all.

I agree with that 100%...is it good for the players or not. But you as a died in the wool Sting supporter don't appear to have the objectivity and insight required to make that determination on behalf of Texan players and parents. You can recognize the value of ECNL players playing down in LH (when Sting does it), but cannot fathom how a D1 player playing down a division could be anything but a club using ringers to win byes. Your rationale? Others don't have the Sting "Pride" and their coaches have no shame. It's incredible given that anyone with two open eyes can see the trend of Sting's top teams being largely composed of players formed somewhere other than Sting.

You did a great job carrying the water defending B.Coralli when that thread was the topic here...so good you even had me coming way from that thread thinking the Coralli issue was much ado about nothing. But no amount of bulldoggedness is going to convince many that Sting uses a different moral compass than anyone else regarding deployment of players.

I think it's good for ALL ECNL clubs to dual roster 2nd string ECNL players.  I don't care if it's Sting, Texans, FC Dallas, etc.  I think it was a good thing for Defeeters to create more than one team per age for this reason. Another important factor in this is the ECNL substitution rules. Those rules do not exist in LH.

I don't know the Texan girls who played down first hand, but I was told by somebody who does know that the girls the Texans brought down were ringers.  One was the assistant coach's daughter.  I do know one girl on that top Texan team who does not play a whole lot for them, yet they didn't have her play down to get more playing time.  If I saw her playing down, I would have had no problem with it and probably wouldn't have even posted on this thread.  But she wasn't there.  It is telling who did play down and who didn't.

Regarding B Coralli, I have heard that he is a grade A jackass.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he is doing some other illegal activity that nobody knows about.  Perhaps he runs the club well, I don't know, but I think it would be great if he were to sell it to somebody.  My main issue on that thread was those people who said that anybody who continues to coach for or play for sting somehow endorses that behavior or are even complicit.  That is ridiculous.  I assume nobody here has renounced their US citizenship because we locked up Japanese in internment camps during WWII.

Am I the only one confused here? What Texans team players played down in Div 2? Texans South players played with Texans Waco is my only guess? I have no idea which ones played were, but I do know that Texans South has a couple of kids from Waco on their team and it would be logical to me if they helped out with the kids that they grew up playing with on Waco Texans team. Im not positive, but I would guess that they probably practice with the Waco team anyways since that would be a pretty long drive from Waco just to practice with South.

Does the Dallas Texan south assistant coach live in Waco?

I dont know.

mcik17 wrote:Am I the only one confused here? What Texans team players played down in Div 2? Texans South players played with Texans Waco is my only guess? I have no idea which ones played were, but I do know that Texans South has a couple of kids from Waco on their team and it would be logical to me if they helped out with the kids that they grew up playing with on Waco Texans team. Im not positive, but I would guess that they probably practice with the Waco team anyways since that would be a pretty long drive from Waco just to practice with South.

This thread was hijacked a long time ago. It is a U-15 or U-17 team that the Aggie is referring to.

No was talking '02s. The high school ages haven't started yet. They don't start for 3 weeks or so.

I have serious doubts that the assistant coach lives in Waco. I have never heard of such a thing. Assuming that is right and that his daughter guest played, then it's more than pals playing together.

Even if it was about pals, that would be BS. Soccer is a small world. Pals are everywhere. If they liked their pals so much then they should have signed up with their pals. It seems that the fact that they are in 8th place has more to do with it.

Helping a Waco team?   

Yeah it is a Texans Waco team that is in 8th place. It seems to me they are trying to save them from relegation.

I heard they did the same thing the prior weekend as well.

I really think you will see more and more of this over the next few weeks with teams that are on the bubble to be relegated either down or out of LH's. However I think it's going to be more of a situation where you have some 03's playing up to help teams than swapping between 02 teams inside the same club. Teams like FCD Blue and Solar Pulp could probably use a player or two from their clubs top 03 teams to maybe give them a little boost (not saying they are going to come in and dominate but both clubs have some very good 03's that could help them out). Sadly the Dfeeters have no options like this so what they have is what they have. Those are just a couple of examples in DI but you can look through all Divisions and see where that type of scenario might help. Those teams sitting in spots 6-10 in DII & DIII are probably actively looking for an edge to give them an extra point or two. It's a balancing act though, don't want to tick off the regulars.

I think that '03 D1 league is probably higher level of competition than what you would find in most '02 D2 games.  So by doing that, you would be not doing those '03 players a service.  So in my book, that would be abuse.  I think people should shame clubs that abuse the rule and applaud those who do not.


I know the spring season is early, but I think that if fever does not advance into D1, it would be a travesty.  I do not know any girls on that team, so don't think I am biased.  I'm just basing that on a few games that I saw in fall. I have fear that this rule may get abused and they get screwed.

SHUT UP........................ AND PLAY

"I think that if fever does not advance into D1, it would be a travesty. I do not know any girls on that team, so don't think I am biased. I'm just basing that on a few games that I saw in fall."

LOL, and i am basing that on games i saw in the fall. a travesty? yea right...

You cannot deny the record in the fall. They are 2 wins ahead of #2. Had 10 more goals than #2 and only had 1 goal scored on them all season.

aTmAg wrote:I think that '03 D1 league is probably higher level of competition than what you would find in most '02 D2 games.  So by doing that, you would be not doing those '03 players a service.  So in my book, that would be abuse.  I think people should shame clubs that abuse the rule and applaud those who do not.


I know the spring season is early, but I think that if fever does not advance into D1, it would be a travesty.  I do not know any girls on that team, so don't think I am biased.  I'm just basing that on a few games that I saw in fall.  I have fear that this rule may get abused and they get screwed.

Wow, you add a level of complete subjectivity about what constitutes doing players a service, and then want clubs "shamed" based on your definitions for doing what is allowed by the rules.

Then, as justification, you use a team you saw "play a few games in the fall", and are trying to protect them from being screwed by another team's abuse for doing something that is completely within the rules?

There is no law against adultery either, but I think that is a shameful act as well.

Not only does allowing D1 players playing down violate the philosophical spirit of the rule, but LHGCL specifically wrote a "spirit of the rule" and this violates that written spirit as well. If you don't think it is shameful to take girls who signed up for a given team, bench them, and then bring in ringers from a higher level team and have them play at a lower level of competition just to hide crappy coaching, then I don't know what to tell you.

aTmAg wrote:There is no law against adultery either, but I think that is a shameful act as well.

Not only does allowing D1 players playing down violate the philosophical spirit of the rule, but LHGCL specifically wrote a "spirit of the rule" and this violates that written spirit as well.  If you don't think it is shameful to take girls who signed up for a given team, bench them, and then bring in ringers from a higher level team and have them play at a lower level of competition just to hide crappy coaching, then I don't know what to tell you.

I was referring primarily to your stance on the '03 players playing up on '02 being shameful based on your opinion that all '03 D1 teams are more competitive.  That said, equating adultery to youth soccer players playing on other teams in accordance with the rules, is kind of bizarre.

All you are doing is supposing and guessing what some other team is doing, and without much knowledge about what and why they've done it, calling it bringing in ringers to hide crappy coaching.  

If you had some evidence that these "ringers" were brought in for the sole purpose of trying to stave off relegation or whatever, you might have a case.  But it appears these complaints are from people that "believe" someone is doing (or are going to do) something in violation of the spirit of the rules without anything more that speculation.

I guess maybe its like seeing your neighbor out to lunch with a female that is not his wife (without knowing anything about the situation), and then publicly calling for him to be shamed for his obvious adultery, to use your example.

Player pass abuse on the same level of adultry, interesting

I personally think the rule is a joke but it's here now and probably not going away. I would also agree that some DI 03 games are probably played at a higher level of skill than some of the DIII 02 games, not so much in the DII ranks though. I guess you could see a few players move up and help out a couple of the DII and DIII teams but only for a couple off weekends until the games start conflicting (unless they decide to stop playing with the 03 team altogether)

I looked at the teams in DII and I'm not worried about Fever being screwed over by this process. They have over almost a 3 win advantage over the 3rd/4th place teams. They will be fine.

Five 0 wrote:SHUT UP........................ AND PLAY

  ^^^THIS!!

But it would be a travesty, a travesty I tell you!!!

I'm not saying player pass is up there with adultery.  Just that because something is allowed by a rule doesn't mean it is good.  Are you guys claiming that there is no such thing as rule abuse?  That as long as you follow the rule, everything is good? Really?

aTmAg wrote:There is no law against adultery either, but I think that is a shameful act as well.

Not only does allowing D1 players playing down violate the philosophical spirit of the rule, but LHGCL specifically wrote a "spirit of the rule" and this violates that written spirit as well.  If you don't think it is shameful to take girls who signed up for a given team, bench them, and then bring in ringers from a higher level team and have them play at a lower level of competition just to hide crappy coaching, then I don't know what to tell you.

Amen.....