Re: LHGCL Weekend 2

by zapruderfilm 03/08/14, 06:18 pm

After closely examining this film, it is indisputable. The goalie clearly moves back and to the left, back and to the left. The ball obviously glances off Governor Connelly's foot -- I mean, the defender's foot -- then takes an unexpected turn back towards the net, creeping through the obvious gash in the side of the goal. That is one magic soccer ball. Now, there is of course the other theory -- of the second shooter. Perhaps there was a second corner kick coming from the Grassy Knoll. This is also an obvious explanation. If you look closely frames 238 and 239 are missing, that's when the ball disappears. Is this the Lake Highland League or CIA that has taken this footage? Hard to make a call on this one. We must also consider the three hobos and the umbrella man seen behind the bench area.

At any rate, the best part of this post is that if you decide to respond, you will have to respond to Zapruder Film. Giggle.

by Guest 03/08/14, 06:36 pm

BahamaMamma wrote:Movin please remove my name...are you sime creepy stalker??? Thats just weird.... I never dared you to do anything. However. If my name is not immediately removed frim your post i will request admin to block you. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

"It's okay....mamma is here. Everything is gonna be okay!!!!! Jessie is a fantastic coach. And for those of you who feel all purified.....go ahead and cast a stone.... I assure you....your mirror will be broken. Next!!!!! There is not one single team in north Texas that is without sin...so shut up and suck it up....we are coming into a new year.. Let this be a year of forgive and forget. Or we can hash out all you have think you have unturned ......trust me........I have many many many friends..........I'll call them out now.... Idc.......yes.i love you all but I know the ones who have slept with coaches ... I know those who know board members .....at the end of the day...... Either shut up or put your kid in rec. hugs and kisses....... And yes.... That is how I roll. Sincerely. Bahama mamma!!!"

by BahamaMamma 03/08/14, 06:49 pm

So what.....you can remove my name asshole. You want to come at me....do it to my face.

by BahamaMamma 03/08/14, 06:51 pm

Or are you one of the ones mentioned in my june statement.... ??? Hummmmm

by BahamaMamma 03/08/14, 06:52 pm

I find it very creepy that you are so very attached to all if my posts and my facebook.....you have major issues.

by BahamaMamma 03/08/14, 06:56 pm

Thank you for removing my name....good God. I dont care if people know me....i dont want my name on here....as im sure YOU dont.

by Guest 03/08/14, 06:58 pm

BahamaMamma wrote:So what.....you can remove my name asshole. You want to come at me....do it to my face.

by Guest 03/08/14, 06:59 pm

BahamaMamma wrote:Thank you for removing my name....good God. I dont care if people know me....i dont want my name on here....as im sure YOU dont.

by Caesar 03/08/14, 06:59 pm

It happens...... It can happen at a MS or a HS soccer game. There isn't anything you can do about it. Just a missed call. Just as an offside can be visible and not called. Good luck and best wishes to each team this year.

by GoalMouth 03/08/14, 07:01 pm

Do you know of any tournament or league that operates in this manner? Typically there are no challenges allowed on the judgement of a referee. Scores are typically final unless there is something illegal occurred with the roster.

The LHGCL QT rules state: "No protests are allowed, except questions regarding ineligible or illegal players." Their league rules include the statement: "PROTESTS WILL NOT BE HEARD OR ENTERTAINED THAT PERTAIN TO REFEREE JUDGMENT." This type of language is pretty common, so it will likely not be the last time you'll see it.

It was many years ago that mine played in the QT, but I clearly remember the importance placed on making LHGCL. I understand the emotion and the disappointment, but I don't understand is the desire to demean the other team.

Ballhead,

I respect your wisdom and opinion and I do agree with and understand your desire not to "demean the other team". If we demand civility, this forum might not be the place as it may add additional frustration to our lives. Sometimes stirring the pot is the only way to over emphasize a point to make a point when the system gives no means for for change. One can at least feel like they have been heard. No means for change...now that sounds like North Texas Soccer of which LHGCL unfortunately for them are the poster child.

IMO the rest of your augments basis (sorry for my paraphrasing) - 'that is the way it is and here is the rule to prove it' doesn't really work in society today. Customers (the parents and players) and technology (everyone has a camera, video camera and social media portal at the fingertips) are driving companies to rethink 'how we use to do it vs. how we need to do it today' if we want to continue to capitalize off of the majority market share.

While the 'Because We Said So' mentality maintains what seems to be control to work by - it is also what keeps so many participants disrespecting the refs, the leagues and the soccer experience here in North Texas. So Question: If we cannot challenge and even make fun of what is not working, why would it ever change?

It seems that there is a fear that a human can be human and be wrong. Oh, and if we let video or Protests in and have to rethink something after the game there will be Chaos. That may have been true when these rules were written, when video use to be unavailable and expensive and when arguments would linger on and on over interpretation or memory of what had happened. But Video is cheap and everyone is doing it and socializing it...because video speaks an immediate truth. In my own experience every time I have video of Parents screaming on the sidelines at refs...9 out of 10 times the refs are correct. The video does nothing more than forces the screaming parent on the sideline to rethink their scream and let the Refs do their jobs.

The dream for me though is how much better our soccer experience can be if we refine the 1 time they are wrong. Change decisions made in error and learn and improve from our mistakes. Maybe then I won't feel like I am paying the clubs and the leagues so much money to abuse me and my DD. Only idiots would pay this much money for all this abuse.

Regards,
Idiot #1

by BahamaMamma 03/08/14, 07:27 pm

Slow your role there movin.....not sure who appointed you my authority figure.....but i do not need your stalker ass teaching me anything....so an apology would have been enough..... However. Maybe you gettibg a job would allow you to quit focusing so much of your time on me and my posts. GN

by ballhead 03/08/14, 07:57 pm

GoalMouth wrote:

Do you know of any tournament or league that operates in this manner? Typically there are no challenges allowed on the judgement of a referee. Scores are typically final unless there is something illegal occurred with the roster.

The LHGCL QT rules state: "No protests are allowed, except questions regarding ineligible or illegal players." Their league rules include the statement: "PROTESTS WILL NOT BE HEARD OR ENTERTAINED THAT PERTAIN TO REFEREE JUDGMENT." This type of language is pretty common, so it will likely not be the last time you'll see it.

It was many years ago that mine played in the QT, but I clearly remember the importance placed on making LHGCL. I understand the emotion and the disappointment, but I don't understand is the desire to demean the other team.

Ballhead,

I respect your wisdom and opinion and I do agree with and understand your desire not to "demean the other team". If we demand civility, this forum might not be the place as it may add additional frustration to our lives. Sometimes stirring the pot is the only way to over emphasize a point to make a point when the system gives no means for for change. One can at least feel like they have been heard. No means for change...now that sounds like North Texas Soccer of which LHGCL unfortunately for them are the poster child.

IMO the rest of your augments basis (sorry for my paraphrasing) - 'that is the way it is and here is the rule to prove it' doesn't really work in society today. Customers (the parents and players) and technology (everyone has a camera, video camera and social media portal at the fingertips) are driving companies to rethink 'how we use to do it vs. how we need to do it today' if we want to continue to capitalize off of the majority market share.

While the 'Because We Said So' mentality maintains what seems to be control to work by - it is also what keeps so many participants disrespecting the refs, the leagues and the soccer experience here in North Texas. So Question: If we cannot challenge and even make fun of what is not working, why would it ever change?

It seems that there is a fear that a human can be human and be wrong. Oh, and if we let video or Protests in and have to rethink something after the game there will be Chaos. That may have been true when these rules were written, when video use to be unavailable and expensive and when arguments would linger on and on over interpretation or memory of what had happened. But Video is cheap and everyone is doing it and socializing it...because video speaks an immediate truth. In my own experience every time I have video of Parents screaming on the sidelines at refs...9 out of 10 times the refs are correct. The video does nothing more than forces the screaming parent on the sideline to rethink their scream and let the Refs do their jobs.

The dream for me though is how much better our soccer experience can be if we refine the 1 time they are wrong. Change decisions made in error and learn and improve from our mistakes. Maybe then I won't feel like I am paying the clubs and the leagues so much money to abuse me and my DD. Only idiots would pay this much money for all this abuse.

Regards,
Idiot #1

If it makes you feel like you're accomplishing these lofty goals by complaining on a message board, by all means, continue to do so.

You say: "No means for change...now that sounds like North Texas Soccer of which LHGCL unfortunately for them are the poster child." You might be surprised at how much change occurs within LHGCL and NTX each year. There ARE means for change, it just takes a little work. I'm guessing the league would welcome some new young blood on the board. Looking at their website, it looks like they've made quite a few changes on the board in the last year or so.

You seem to be advocating the use of spectator video to challenge the result of a game after it's over. How would you do that? Professional soccer, with far more resources (financial and people) don't use such evidence to overturn the results of a game, and if they ever do, it won't come from spectator supplied videos.

I can't imagine the deluge of game protests that would follow such an implementation. Everyone complains about the cost of youth soccer, imagine what it would be when you add in a staff to evaluate the videos, validate that they haven't been modified, and that they come from an angle where everything is "exactly what it appears to be" and to make certain there isn't another video that shows something different.

On this, I'll leave y'all to your misery. I get the emotion, I really do. I'm just not a fan of demeaning a team that didn't do anything wrong, didn't pay the ref to make a bad call, even if it's in the spirit of "challenge and even make fun of what is not working".

by ddub68 03/08/14, 08:02 pm

Lucky Lightning*

by justme76 03/08/14, 08:07 pm

What if.....the Andromeda vs Lighting game ended in a tie.
What would have had to happen for Andromeda to make it in today.

by GoalMouth 03/08/14, 08:33 pm

On this, I'll leave y'all to your misery. I get the emotion, I really do. I'm just not a fan of demeaning a team that didn't do anything wrong, didn't pay the ref to make a bad call, even if it's in the spirit of "challenge and even make fun of what is not working".

Ballhead - Please don't misunderstand me. I am neither trying to argue, complain or make fun of what is not working. And i don't think you could find a demeaning statement towards the other team or any ref in anything that I, personally, have written. I thought that you and I were having a great open conversation.

I believe all of us are emotional and passionate about the subject as our kids are involved. I am passionate about not having the drama that our first 3 years of North Texas soccer have produced, so please don't take it personal when I refer to North Texas Soccer or LHGCL. They are simply the rules that we are currently having to play by and the only reference point that I have.

As for "You might be surprised at how much change occurs within LHGCL and NTX each year." - I must be low enough on the totem pole that I have not experienced any of this change. Obviously I am not the expert on the soccer business...but we all have ideas and isn't this site a discussion forum where we are supposed to be able to have open conversations? I am a customer and am simply trying to express my pains with someone that I feel has influence on the system.

If we can't start discussion on how to change then lets just expect to continue on and accept that we are the best we can be. I fear for the resignation to the idea that this experience cannot be better than we are today. Just tell me if I hope for too much.

Thank you for the conversation.

by Guest 03/08/14, 08:41 pm

BahamaMamma wrote:Slow your role there movin.....not sure who appointed you my authority figure.....but i do not need your stalker ass teaching me anything....so an apology would have been enough..... However. Maybe you gettibg a job would allow you to quit focusing so much of your time on me and my posts. GN

by GoalMouth 03/08/14, 08:47 pm

justme76 wrote:What if.....the Andromeda vs Lighting game ended in a tie.
What would have had to happen for Andromeda to make it in today.

Andromeda would have played today against Evolution - Andromeda win

Lightning would have played against Sparta - Sparta win

It would have come down to points differential...unless Sparta shut out Lightning like they did Evolution

by ddub68 03/08/14, 08:52 pm

Justme, according to the schedule, Andromeda would have to win vs Evolution better than 2-1 and Lucky Lightning* would have to lose to Sparta. I'm pretty confident Sparta would have won, Andro wod have still had to take care of business and the way Evo played their first two games, they seemed a bit flat IMHO.
Lots of what ifs, the games for today were cancelled based on the results of yesterday, so like the Zapruder film guy would probably conclude, Jack Ruby took out Oswalt before we could hear the truth. LOL.

by jsullivan81 03/08/14, 08:59 pm

BahamaMamma wrote:Agreed... However Sanchez had no guest players in tut...mustangs have never beat them. And Dunstan finally has a 100% of his team..... So maybe ir will be Sanchez. Dunstan.Sparta and......anyones guess!!!! Andro red???? That would be nice.

Hi Bahama..... Feel free to edit your post. It can now say... Mustangs have never beat them.... until today. Very Happy

Thought you might enjoy the reminder.

by txthrowaway 04/08/14, 02:00 am

I've lurked here for a while, but the recent commotion over the Andromeda vs Lightning game caused me to want to create an account. Hopefully what I have to show will put the issue to rest.

If you only viewed the video on a mobile device, it's easy to understand how it could be difficult to tell what actually happened. After looking at the video that was posted on a full size screen, and looking at it frame by frame, there is no doubt that the ball went legitimately into the goal.

Again, if you're on a mobile device, you may want to take a look at all of this on your home computer.

Below is an animated image showing frames 780-785 of the video posted by the Andromeda parent.

LHGCL Weekend 2 - Page 4 BBk8oLC

In the first two frames you see the ball coming in. In frame 782 the ball disappears behind the keeper. In frame 783, however, you can just see the ball start to peek out from behind the keep. Clearly between the keep and the post. Frame 784 shows the ball completely out from behind the keeper, yet still partially obscuring the post. Frame 785 shows the ball not having even crossed the goal line yet.

None of these last 3 frames would have been possible if the ball had gone through the side netting. You'll also notice there is no disturbance to the net either.

What really happened? If I had to guess going off of the video, the keeper called for the ball, and so the player on the near post moved out of the way. Unfortunately the keeper arrived a fraction of a second too late, and the ball just managed to squeeze in. Had the defender on the near post stayed put, there would not have been a goal. So it wasn't lucky, unlucky, or bad refereeing. It was a very unfortunate defensive error.

Hopefully the parents of the Andromeda girls will see this for what it is, and won't insist that they were cheated out of a result, or getting in. I think that is a huge disservice to the girls, and the way they played. I also hope that this can stop the name calling towards Lightning as well. It wasn't luck that they managed to fight their way down the field, earn a corner kick, and put the ball in a dangerous position. Both teams played hard the entire game, and deserve respect for their performances.

LHGCL Weekend 2 - Page 4 5DDbJ1F

by ddub68 04/08/14, 06:31 am

Dude, looking at the stills makes it even more obvious. The keeper's body is tight against the post and the defender is out of bounds(following the ball).
The ball itself is seen partially blocked by the goal post in one of the frames.
How do you explain only seeing 3/4 of the ball but clearly seeing the post in front of it??? Fraction of a second the pole magically appeared in front of the ball. Lol.
Come on man.
We all see what happened, I watched it twice on my large screen.
Nice try but the Lucky Lightning* remain Lucky*

by Guest 04/08/14, 07:09 am

Forget about the LOTG...

I'm still trying to figure out which Law of Physics allows an inward curving ball launched from 25 yds away, to go through the side of the net, but then deflect so that 15 ft. later, the ball lands OUTSIDE the goal line, then magically changes direction AGAIN to cross back into the goal along a path similar to it's initial trajectory.

Hey Admin... can you do one of your funky little tricks to put an asterisk next to ddub68, 03soccermom1980, and anyone else who watches that video and thinks that wasn't a legitimate goal... Rolling Eyes

by GoalMouth 04/08/14, 07:31 am

txthrowaway wrote:I've lurked here for a while, but the recent commotion over the Andromeda vs Lightning game caused me to want to create an account. Hopefully what I have to show will put the issue to rest.

If you only viewed the video on a mobile device, it's easy to understand how it could be difficult to tell what actually happened. After looking at the video that was posted on a full size screen, and looking at it frame by frame, there is no doubt that the ball went legitimately into the goal.

Again, if you're on a mobile device, you may want to take a look at all of this on your home computer.

Wow, from another viewpont the only thing the animated GIF proves is that you know how to create an animated GIF.

Oh, AND that the ball is behind the goal post AND that the net is displaced in the very bottom corner where the ball is AND that you have destroyed all the real evidence by showing a few frames to try and tell a story with a few screenshots to make someone feel better.

I sure hope that no one that is truly trying to review this video is watching it on a mobile. That is why it is posted in full 1060i HDV on the site referred to. With full capability to download for playback on any player and on any screen that they want.

Be assured that this video was not taken on a mobile device or some cheap video camera nor will it even play on most mobile devices because it is encoded at such a high resolution.

When you can include the full evidence of the path of the ball from the time it was kicked, the angle from which it was filmed and a plausible explanation for how the ball jumped out from behind the goal post to enter the goal mouth and then make a radical curve to complete its course across the inside of the goal without bing touched by anyone...please just settle for the fact that we agree to disagree.

If someone on a forum is that hurt by someone sticking their tongue out at them them then it seems that they might not believe their own simple truth.

I believe the real point here is that there is no respectful way to challenge a refs call inside or outside of a game. The discussion, if you ignore the clutter, is - should there be the ability to dispute a call and how much impact would that have. Good or bad?

by textigerfan 04/08/14, 07:49 am

OK...after reading thru some of this thread to get the jist of it...goal vs no goal and please remove my name (which I certainly get that), finally spent a few minutes looking at the video of the goal. First of all, great corner kick for that age group or any age group. Second, at exactly 1:10 of the video, I swear I see something between the keepers right leg and the post. If my eyes are correct, it has to be the ball. Can even follow the shadow of the ball. Tough angle for all. I viewed this on a 21 inch computer screen, not an IPad or phone. The keeper was still moving towards the post and was not up against it totally. Just did not get there in time it seems. Have no idea if keeper called it or not, but kind of looks like it the way her defender got out of the way. I can see how that could get in...lots of moving parts.

I have absolutely no dog in this fight...just my opinion. I know the kids and parents are disappointed with the weekend by going 0-2. Have been in the disappointment of being close and not making it before so I fully understand. I am sure the girls and coach will recover faster than some of the parents. They should be fine as long as it stays fun...especially for '03 girls.

by ddub68 04/08/14, 08:04 am

I have no dog in the fight either as a matter of fact I tried to rationalize with soccermom in the beginning but after reviewing the video on a larger screen, it only became more obvious as to what happened.
You addressed what you thought you saw, but haven't addressed the post in front of the ball, are we avoiding this one piece of evidence as a optical illusion, if so let me know.
The reality is the "goal" was allowed, nothing can be done, should there be a way to challenge or review? Probably, who knows that's difficult to say.
What I do know is one team got Lucky* and another got robbed. Oh and bwgophers* now gets an asterisk every chance I get. Don't you have some rankings to get to or something for the 05's? Bahahahaha

by 03soccermomtx 04/08/14, 08:05 am

textigerfan wrote:OK...after reading thru some of this thread to get the jist of it...goal vs no goal and please remove my name (which I certainly get that), finally spent a few minutes looking at the video of the goal. First of all, great corner kick for that age group or any age group. Second, at exactly 1:10 of the video, I swear I see something between the keepers right leg and the post. If my eyes are correct, it has to be the ball. Can even follow the shadow of the ball. Tough angle for all. I viewed this on a 21 inch computer screen, not an IPad or phone. The keeper was still moving towards the post and was not up against it totally. Just did not get there in time it seems. Have no idea if keeper called it or not, but kind of looks like it the way her defender got out of the way. I can see how that could get in...lots of moving parts.

I have absolutely no dog in this fight...just my opinion. I know the kids and parents are disappointed with the weekend by going 0-2. Have been in the disappointment of being close and not making it before so I fully understand. I am sure the girls and coach will recover faster than some of the parents. They should be fine as long as it stays fun...especially for '03 girls.

Agreed. When you zoom in on video you can see the ball is between the keepers right knee and the post. The next frame you see the ball coming out in front of the post and the next frame has the ball hitting the ground in front of the line with enough spin to end up in the net. Sorry but to the original point is trying to be made the video doesn't not lie and this case goes against the poster.

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