'04 King TuT 7/18 - 20

http://events.gotsport.com/events/?eventid=35200

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=35200&Gender=Girls&Age=11

O.K.  Loving the look of those Platinum brackets!  Those are going to be some competitive games.

...but Texans playing back-to-back games against D'Feeters Black and Sting Donovan on Friday night???  Is that a TD miscue, or did Texans actually request/agree to that?  

According to 6-22 FBR ranking:

Bracket A Plat

#01 TX Spirit 04 Clark
#03 D'Feeters 04 - JK
#04 DT 04 Scott
#07 Sting 04 Gutierrez (Donavan)
#08 LP 04 Owen

Bracket B Plat

#09 Sting 04 Chacon
#10 Odyssey 04
#11 Solar Chelsea  04 Pulp/Abbott
#13 Mustang 04 FC
#14 LP Redknapp

There is NO coincident that Tut used 6-22 FBR to group teams.  

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:According to 6-22 FBR ranking:

Bracket A

#01 TX Spirit 04 Clark
#03 D'Feeters 04 - JK
#04 DT 04 Scott
#07 Sting 04 Gutierrez (Donavan)
#08 LP 04 Owen

Bracket B

#09 Sting 04 Chacon
#10 Odyssey 04
#11 Solar Chelsea  04 Pulp/Abbott
#13 Mustang 04 FC
#14 LP Redknapp

There is NO coincident that Tut used 6-22 FBR to group teams.  

Not to mention Gold A is #15-19.

Hey Jesse... how 'bout cutting me a check for seeding your tournament for you??? Actually, I'm fine with 2% of the gross parking income from this weekend...  

bwgophers wrote:

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:According to 6-22 FBR ranking:

Bracket A

#01 TX Spirit 04 Clark
#03 D'Feeters 04 - JK
#04 DT 04 Scott
#07 Sting 04 Gutierrez (Donavan)
#08 LP 04 Owen

Bracket B

#09 Sting 04 Chacon
#10 Odyssey 04
#11 Solar Chelsea  04 Pulp/Abbott
#13 Mustang 04 FC
#14 LP Redknapp

There is NO coincident that Tut used 6-22 FBR to group teams.  

Not to mention Gold A is #15-19.

Hey Jesse... how 'bout cutting me a check for seeding your tournament for you???  Actually, I'm fine with 2% of the gross parking income from this weekend...  

  Touch Down 

Mo' parking money, mo' parking money.....

What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Is Guzman 04 previously 04 Diaz?

hooper96 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Is Guzman 04 previously 04 Diaz?

That is my understanding, yes. Last word I got a couple of weeks before signing, they still had a good chunk of the core players that made up the original Sting '04 Goodman team. Maybe not as strong as they were before the Goodman/Tallal move to FCD, but definitely stronger than Silver B.

[quote="bwgophers"]What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?
[/quote]

Sting Guzman is the former Sting Diaz. We requested Platinum. I think we can all guess what happened here. Hopefully, FCD and tourney director will do the right thing and give this team the competition they requested and not punish the team bc of their hate for JD.

Shekicks04 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Sting Guzman is the former Sting Diaz. We requested Platinum. I think we can all guess what happened here. Hopefully, FCD and tourney director will do the right thing and give this team the competition they requested and not punish the team bc of their hate for JD.

Yea - I'm not so quick to judge Jesse's intentions on this.

OK, select newbie here, but I do not understand how this tournament format does anything to aid seeding for QT.  By using FBR and separating brackets into small groups of five, you make any  meaningful movement almost impossible.  If you are the top team in your bracket, a good performance keeps you roughly where you are (after all, you didn't play and beat any of the teams above you).  A disappointing performance moves you down a few notches.  If you are the bottom team in your bracket, you may be able to move up a few spots, but you are also essentially protected from any significant fall (after all, you didn't lose to any of the teams seeded below you).    Why not cross-pollinate?  Why not do something that looks more like the QT brackets?  I am genuinely confused as to why so much seeding emphasis is (from what I've heard) placed on a tournament that doesn't really provide much information regarding the post-signing strength of the team.

P.S.  I get that there will be outliers -- teams that tank and tank badly, for instance -- but those will be outliers.  And you still won't be left with any real information as to where those teams "should" be seeded for QT.

I was thinking the same thing Seamus...thanks for saving me some typing time...

Shekicks04 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Sting Guzman is the former Sting Diaz. We requested Platinum. I think we can all guess what happened here. Hopefully, FCD and tourney director will do the right thing and give this team the competition they requested and not punish the team bc of their hate for JD.

So how do you really feel? That a pretty wild accusation to just come flying on the boards with...just sayin'.
I really don't think a TD would put the reputation of a tournament on the line over a petty quarrel over a problem coach...you might want to look into the edit button at the top right of your post...

King TuT is not a "seeding" tournament.  It is a Tune-up-Tournament.  It is the "King" of the "TuT's".  Clever FCD, get it???

The primary purpose of the tournament is not to assist LHGCL with it's seeding process, but rather to assist teams in their preparation for QT.  Hence, the general grouping of teams in closely competitive brackets, and the "friendly" format with no playoff or trophies/medals.  

The fact that LHGCL sends their reps out to watch games to help their seeding committee is just a by-product.  The seeding committee can get a good feel for the teams whether they are playing "equal" competition, or they are playing much stronger/weaker competition.

***Disclaimer - I am in no way associated with either FC Dallas or LHGCL...  Just an over-involved idiot expressing his opinion based on watching this stuff w-a-a-a-y-y-y too close for 4 years running now...***

bwgophers wrote:O.K.  Loving the look of those Platinum brackets!  Those are going to be some competitive games.

...but Texans playing back-to-back games against D'Feeters Black and Sting Donovan on Friday night???  Is that a TD miscue, or did Texans actually request/agree to that?  

What the heck!?!

seamusdog wrote:OK, select newbie here, but I do not understand how this tournament format does anything to aid seeding for QT.  By using FBR and separating brackets into small groups of five, you make any  meaningful movement almost impossible.  If you are the top team in your bracket, a good performance keeps you roughly where you are (after all, you didn't play and beat any of the teams above you).  A disappointing performance moves you down a few notches.  If you are the bottom team in your bracket, you may be able to move up a few spots, but you are also essentially protected from any significant fall (after all, you didn't lose to any of the teams seeded below you).    Why not cross-pollinate?  Why not do something that looks more like the QT brackets?  I am genuinely confused as to why so much seeding emphasis is (from what I've heard) placed on a tournament that doesn't really provide much information regarding the post-signing strength of the team.

P.S.  I get that there will be outliers -- teams that tank and tank badly, for instance -- but those will be outliers.  And you still won't be left with any real information as to where those teams "should" be seeded for QT.

It should expose who might be over-rated or under-rated...if they are all assumed to be similar in strength based on previous academy results, a team that lost talent during the signing period, over-performed previously due to guess players, or got stronger due to key pickups during the last couple months will be identifiable beyond a single game result, which quite possibly could be a fluke or a couple unlucky bounces.  
If this seeding method (aka FBR) is correct, all the games should be very close and competitive...a blowout because the TD pitted a top 10 team vs. a 50th ranked team does no good for the players tune up wise, nor does the seeding committee learn anything.  
Now...if a previously top 10 team loses all their games like 3-0 against other top 10 teams, then something is amiss and needs further evaluation as to their seeding.  Likewise, if a team in 15-20 playing similarly ranked teams looks to be unchallenged in their games, they may be under-rated.  Every game should be 0-0 or 1-0 if the rankings are perfect.

BWG ... I certainly see that now.  This looks like a "tune-up" format.  And the TD is certainly not obligated to LHGCL to serve their needs.

That said, I've been hearing for the past two years that KT is a primary source for seeding (not the primary source).  So I am surprised.

It also sheds a little more light on the new Seeding Showdown (at least for me).  I was in the "money grab" camp, but now I'm not so sure.  There, the seeding looked more like the QT format, albeit with a small pool and without the top teams.  I'm wondering if this is what NTSSA was trying to accomplish (along with some extra ca$h).

seamusdog wrote:BWG ... I certainly see that now.  This looks like a "tune-up" format.  And the TD is certainly not obligated to LHGCL to serve their needs.

That said, I've been hearing for the past two years that KT is a primary source for seeding (not the primary source).  So I am surprised.

It also sheds a little more light on the new Seeding Showdown (at least for me).  I was in the "money grab" camp, but now I'm not so sure.  There, the seeding looked more like the QT format, albeit with a small pool and without the top teams.  I'm wondering if this is what NTSSA was trying to accomplish (along with some extra ca$h).

A few years ago, King TuT and Puma Cup used to be on relatively equal footing as far as the number of teams and level of competition.  LHGCL sent reps to both tournaments to observe games, and people used to come on this board and vehemently debate which tournament was more important with regards to seeding.  

Over the past 2-3 years, the momentum has swung significantly towards the U11 girls teams playing in King TuT.  IMO, this is a result of the quality of the facilities (and thus reliability against rainouts), AND the 4GG friendly format with competitive brackets.  The "importance" of TuT with regards to QT seeding is more "implied" than real, and is indirect fallout from it becoming the primary TuT that the majority of U11 girls teams end up playing in.  Basically, it's where the LHGCL reps are most likely to get their eyes on your team.

I don't pretend to know or understand the motivations behind NTSSA starting up the Seeding Showdown tournament this year, and personally don't see any inherent benefit or advantage to one format vs. another.  Was a bit surprised that more teams didn't sign up for the Showdown, as I do think there is some potential benefit to having a weekend off between the tune-up games and the QT.

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Which Sting West team is that, FBR #25 Sting West Davis or FBR #68 Sting West Neice?

Event show this as the team https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/team.aspx?TeamID=611499&History=yes&compact=

CBTeamworks wrote:

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Which Sting West team is that, FBR #25 Sting West Davis or FBR #68 Sting West Neice?

Event show this as the team https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/team.aspx?TeamID=611499&History=yes&compact=

It's the #25 former Sting West Davis team.

Shekicks04 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Sting Guzman is the former Sting Diaz. We requested Platinum. I think we can all guess what happened here. Hopefully, FCD and tourney director will do the right thing and give this team the competition they requested and not punish the team bc of their hate for JD.

Shekicks - a few hours gone by and still no edit or retraction?  Cuzzzzzz...we all know how much tolerance the Lake Highlands Brass have for parents that think they are intentionally slighted and loudly proclaim it from the rooftops (or on this board).  Oh, yeah..the refs are in on it too!

You know this conspiracy against your team  (Sting Guzman, right?) goes all the way through, right?...Best thing to do is let the referees know before your matches that you absolutely know they are in on the conspiracy against you, let them know you will be watching out for any unfair advantages they give to the other team, and make sure you let them know (louldly) each time they make a questionable call against you...Lake Highlands will be very appreciative for the feedback.  (BTW...if you didn't get the sarcasm there....you got worse problems than I thought) 

In reality, I hope someone more representative of your team's parents has contacted the TD and nicely asked for a reconsideration of the placement.  Cuz...posting accusations on this board ain't gonna help.

bwgophers wrote:

hooper96 wrote:

bwgophers wrote:What's up with Sting Guzman in Silver B? and Sting West in Bronze?

Did those teams request to play down and/or lose key players heading into signing?

Is Guzman 04 previously 04 Diaz?

That is my understanding, yes.  Last word I got a couple of weeks before signing, they still had a good chunk of  the core players that made up the original Sting '04 Goodman team.  Maybe not as strong as they were before the Goodman/Tallal move to FCD, but definitely stronger than Silver B.  

Everything shakes out pretty well except this. It just doesn't make sense. They were #12 on the last FBR. Silver B puts them into #25-30. It doesn't sound like there was major turnover on the roster. Odd. I don't get the comment about JD hatred. Didn't MG take over coaching duties here? Spiteful retribution on JD is not even applicable now. Maybe I missed something because I'm not really in the know. Just my casual observation. Oh well. Carry on...

Oh wait. DT Scott playing back-to-back on Fri night is tough too. Schedule makers certainly didn't do them any favors, especially since Spirit doesn't play at all on Friday. So be it. As Nate Newton once said, "You do what you gotta do, homeboy!"

Sting West looked to be intact at the last couple tourneys. What will the scores look like if the TD doesn't move them? Same for Diaz.

Sting Guzman in Gold B now. not sure who moved out.