FBR06G 9-29-15

Not taking any teams out of the rankings. It was probably not the best idea to take kicks out. I should probably put them back in. I don't want to start a trend of people requesting to be taken out if they aren't number 1. There are several leagues that do not post scores. Developmental leagues like SDL. If teams don't want to be included they should look at those leagues. Those games I only post if requested since not reported.

FBR06G wrote:Not taking any teams out of the rankings.    It was probably not the best idea to take kicks out.  I should probably put them back in.   I don't want to start a trend of people requesting to be taken out if they aren't number 1.     There are several leagues that do not post scores.     Developmental leagues like SDL.  If teams don't want to be included they should look at those leagues.    Those games I only post if requested since not reported.  

I get it you have one set of rules for one team but not everyone else. What are you doing?! Do you even hear yourself?! I am taking Kicks, I shouldn't, but I did. Now, I am not going to take anyone else out if they request it. You sound REALLY biased. If you are objective you should have one set of rules for everyone.

You can't explain your numbers. No wonder why teams want out...your not objective. Time to hand it over to someone less biased!

I shouldn't have taken kicks out because you are right if I do it for one team I should do it for others. So mistake made. Mistake will be corrected. They will be added back in.

And the loss that Solar Red has is against Selecao who if was included this week would have that number 1 spot.

I am a speed guy and not a skills fan.   Comeon man.  After all, anyone who  knows soccer will pick the 11 fastest track stars and assemble a soccer team.  I've heard from kicks JM family that you left JM since your dd didn't get picked for supercopa and surf cup.  Is it true ?  It must hurt you in the rear for your dd being the fastest and not given the opportunity by your club.  

Sho'nuff wrote:

majorpayne wrote:Where is ur dd these days after u moved out of JM .  I have better options for your dd for a second team   :v'ball:

Sho'nuff wrote:

majorpayne wrote:You should take your dd to JM.  Never mind, you already tried  

Sho'nuff wrote:Is this real life?

 

Skills can be acquired. Your DD will always be slow. Go troll.someone else.

FBR06G wrote:I shouldn't have taken kicks out because you are right if I do it for one team I should do it for others.   So mistake made.  Mistake will be corrected.  They will be added back in.  

And the loss that Solar Red has is against Selecao who if was included this week would have that number 1 spot.  

You still can't explain how an undefeated team is ranked lower than a team with a loss and twice as many ties? It should not come down to hundredths of point. We are both smart and successful people. Thus, you have to know your math doesn't add up. So, please don't insult either of our intelligence. My reco is when/if you add Selecao back in double check your numbers because intuitively you know the right answer.

Regardless, I am done with the topic and I apologize if I offended or disrespected you. Peace!

Sho'nuff wrote:OT goals should count. Gophers got this wrong. I saw that FBR07 is continuing this practice.

No.  Gophers didn't get it wrong.  Gophers also didn't get it right.

Gophers made a decision that in the rankings he would publish, he would treat all games equal, whether or not those games were league games, tournament pool games, or tournament bracket elimination games.  Since league games and tournament pool games are not allowed to go to OT or PK's, the only way to treat all games equal is to use the score at the end of regulation time for tournament bracket games as well.

Gophers was never trying to crown some kind of mythical academy champion with his rankings.  Gophers was merely trying to give an accurate assessment of the relative strength of teams within the age group.  Gophers felt that the best way to do that was to include as much game information as possible, and to treat all of those games equally.

If you don't like, or disagree with the decisions that Gophers or any other person publishing a ranking makes, then by all means, please feel free to post your own rankings and use whatever criteria and/or rules you feel are most appropriate.

Too shady Gophers and FBR06G. There is no contest here. We have played both teams several times and I am shocked by the rankings.

bwgophers wrote:

Sho'nuff wrote:OT goals should count. Gophers got this wrong. I saw that FBR07 is continuing this practice.

No.  Gophers didn't get it wrong.  Gophers also didn't get it right.

Gophers made a decision that in the rankings he would publish, he would treat all games equal, whether or not those games were league games, tournament pool games, or tournament bracket elimination games.  Since league games and tournament pool games are not allowed to go to OT or PK's, the only way to treat all games equal is to use the score at the end of regulation time for tournament bracket games as well.

Gophers was never trying to crown some kind of mythical academy champion with his rankings.  Gophers was merely trying to give an accurate assessment of the relative strength of teams within the age group.  Gophers felt that the best way to do that was to include as much game information as possible, and to treat all of those games equally.

If you don't like, or disagree with the decisions that Gophers or any other person publishing a ranking makes, then by all means, please feel free to post your own rankings and use whatever criteria and/or rules you feel are most appropriate.

majorpayne wrote:I am a speed guy and not a skills fan.   Comeon man.  After all, anyone who  knows soccer will pick the 11 fastest track stars and assemble a soccer team.  I've heard from kicks JM family that you left JM since your dd didn't get picked for supercopa and surf cup.  Is it true ?  It must hurt you in the rear for your dd being the fastest and not given the opportunity by your club.  

Sho'nuff wrote:

majorpayne wrote:Where is ur dd these days after u moved out of JM .  I have better options for your dd for a second team   :v'ball:

Sho'nuff wrote:

majorpayne wrote:You should take your dd to JM.  Never mind, you already tried  

Sho'nuff wrote:Is this real life?

 

Skills can be acquired. Your DD will always be slow. Go troll.someone else.

You should use 'Glue Factory' as your next alternate ID.

Elpistolero wrote:Too shady Gophers and FBR06G.   There is no contest here.  We have played both teams several times and I am shocked by the rankings.

Nothing shady about how I treated OT/PK's.  I posted FBR for 5 years over 5 different age groups, always treated OT/PK's the same way, and never made it a secret that I did it that way.

Now, as for the other stuff related to Solar Red/Sting Black, I'll leave that up to FBR06G to defend, but the comments/response have been spot on so far from where I'm standing, and looking at the game results, I would expect those 2 teams to come out very close in the rankings.

If folks want to get pissy about +/- 1 spot, so be it.  That's certainly within their rights, but again, I think they are missing the forest for the trees in those cases.

BWGophers,

I don't know you or at least I don't think we have met.  You seem reasonable.  My questions are simply around the math not making sense.  Its not to be offensive.  So maybe you can help me understand.  Again, i am not trying to be disrespectful.  I keep trying to let it go, but I obviously can't (smile). I am a strick equalitarian on some topics. The facts are:

1) 9-22 Revised FBR there is a 6 point gap between SR Colvin (74 pts) and Sting Black (80).
2) 9-30 FBR has SR Colvin moving 6 up pts and Sting Black down 1pt.  To my understanding, SR Colvin is in a boys league and did not play a girls team but they moved up 6 pts.  In fact, they did not play any team as their record (10-1-4) is the same as during 9-22.  My question is simply how?
3) Sting Black played Texas Spirit Gray (Jason Hollis) and won 10-0, but they lose a pt.  Again my question is simply how?
4) The end result is FBR has a team with no losses and two ties ranked below a team with one loss and four ties.  Again my question simply how?

Too often, I think people are seeking to understand and it is misconstrued as being pissy.  I think most of us on here are smart, but I just don't get it.  Maybe I am getting dumber in my old age (LAUGH OUT LOUD).  Just seeking answers....

BW and Skeets

I will answer Skeets question very detailed but it will be later today when I can go thru the games dropped. It has to do with games dropped and a few teams being moved to tier 3 due to their records in tier 2.

Games dropped matter the same as games added. I assume the byars vs sting black spring game must have dropped.

Again, that Spring data is not good.

SkeetsG06 wrote:

FBR06G wrote:Skeets it is by tenths of points.  And the final game is entered as a tie.  The win was in OT.     Your team plays Selecao soon and Solar Red soon.    

According to your rankings, it does not matter how many times we play a team.  I guess playing Solar 2x is not enough.  They have 1 loss and 4 ties and they ahead of a team with no losses and 2 ties.  Whatever!  

Sting Black also plays DTS soon as well.

Coach Audrey is not on the forum.  So what do you need to take Sting Black out FBR?  

Just don't look at it.
Then you won't know anything about it, and you can think they are out of the rankings, and you won't need to complain about it.

SkeetsG06 wrote:
4) The end result is FBR has a team with no losses and two ties ranked below a team with one loss and four ties.  Again my question simply how?

The 1 loss was to Selecao, so it's not as if they lost to a team ranked below them and Sting Black.  Since Sting Black hasn't played Selecao in the current ranking period, you can't say whether or not Sting Black would've fared better against Selecao.

Head-to-Head, Solar Red and Sting Black have 2 regulation draws, so again, no clear advantage to either team.  Yes, Sting Black won that PLD final in OT, and that's sticking in people's craw a bit, but again, for the purpose of what we did when we developed FBR, that OT period isn't included.

So, based on that, my expectation is the these two teams would be ranked closely to one another.  Which team is ahead of the other comes down to a numbers game related to strength of opponents, margin of victory, etc.  Yes, Solar Red has a couple of more draws, but they also have a couple of more wins than Sting Black.  

This week, the numbers happen to work out ever so slightly in Solar Red's favor.  Next week, after new results are added and old ones dropped, that may or may not change.

At the end of the day, FBR is giving you a pretty good indication of what you are going to get if you play either of those teams, so I don't stress too much about which team is ranked 1 slot higher than the other, especially in this case where (excluding the OT period in PLD), there is no clear indicator that one team should be above the other.  

I don't feel having Solar Red and Sting Black in a virtual tie in the rankings this week invalidates the approach or the overall accuracy of FBR.  Others may have a different opinion, and that's totally cool.

bwgophers wrote:

Sho'nuff wrote:OT goals should count. Gophers got this wrong. I saw that FBR07 is continuing this practice.

No.  Gophers didn't get it wrong.  Gophers also didn't get it right.

Gophers made a decision that in the rankings he would publish, he would treat all games equal, whether or not those games were league games, tournament pool games, or tournament bracket elimination games.  Since league games and tournament pool games are not allowed to go to OT or PK's, the only way to treat all games equal is to use the score at the end of regulation time for tournament bracket games as well.

Gophers was never trying to crown some kind of mythical academy champion with his rankings.  Gophers was merely trying to give an accurate assessment of the relative strength of teams within the age group.  Gophers felt that the best way to do that was to include as much game information as possible, and to treat all of those games equally.

If you don't like, or disagree with the decisions that Gophers or any other person publishing a ranking makes, then by all means, please feel free to post your own rankings and use whatever criteria and/or rules you feel are most appropriate.

+1

Why is there an 07 team listed?

Is there a web page or link that has these rankings? Thanks

The 07 team has now become 06AP

PFSoccer wrote:Is there a web page or link that has these rankings?  Thanks

No website. It is a computer program.

Thanks!

SkeetsG06 wrote:BWGophers,

I don't know you or at least I don't think we have met.  You seem reasonable.  My questions are simply around the math not making sense.  Its not to be offensive.  So maybe you can help me understand.  Again, i am not trying to be disrespectful.  I keep trying to let it go, but I obviously can't (smile).  I am a strick equalitarian on some topics. The facts are:

1) 9-22 Revised FBR there is a 6 point gap between SR Colvin (74 pts) and Sting Black (80).
2) 9-30 FBR has SR Colvin moving 6 up pts and Sting Black down 1pt.  To my understanding, SR Colvin is in a boys league and did not play a girls team but they moved up 6 pts.  In fact, they did not play any team as their record (10-1-4) is the same as during 9-22.  My question is simply how?
3) Sting Black played Texas Spirit Gray (Jason Hollis) and won 10-0, but they lose a pt.  Again my question is simply how?
4) The end result is FBR has a team with no losses and two ties ranked below a team with one loss and four ties.  Again my question simply how?

Too often, I think people are seeking to understand and it is misconstrued as being pissy.  I think most of us on here are smart, but I just don't get it.  Maybe I am getting dumber in my old age (LAUGH OUT LOUD).  Just seeking answers....

If FCD Hanlon and TX Spirit Hollis didn't drop to tier 3 Sting Black would have 80.10 points and Solar Red 77.20. Those are two teams Sting played in the time period. By them being a T3 team instead of T2 now it affected your points. But by looking at those two teams records they were justified to be moved to T3. Any team that plays a team that is moved down a tier it affects their points.

FBR06G wrote:The 07 team has now become 06AP

Got it, sorry my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.

I understand the discussion, but I can't quite get to an agreement on the methodology of the rankings. For example.... It seems to me that the rankings are saying the following....Let's look at how these team play each other (head-to-head), but in the likely event two of them tie each other, let's just forget about how the actual game ended. In other words, why does overtime even exist if it isn't going to be considered? There are these things called "tie-breakers" to help place one team above another.

Also, I am struggling to understand how Solar Black and Solar Chelsea Blue rank ahead of Sting Fuego when Fuego has beaten them both in either the PLD Tourney or league play??? The point system is interesting...Solar Black is currently 10 points ahead of Sting Fuego (even though they lost to Fuego head-to-head at PLD), and Solar Black has only one more win. 10 points seems like a fairly large difference.

I just find it interesting that Solar now occupies 3 or the top 4 spots (you better watch out Sting Black), when two of their teams (Solar Red and Solar Black) lost to the two Sting teams in head to head matches? Seems a bit biased.

briggsn wrote:I understand the discussion, but I can't quite get to an agreement on the methodology of the rankings.  For example.... It seems to me that the rankings are saying the following....Let's look at how these team play each other (head-to-head), but in the likely event two of them tie each other, let's just forget about how the actual game ended.  In other words, why does overtime even exist if it isn't going to be considered?  There are these things called "tie-breakers" to help place one team above another.

Also, I am struggling to understand how Solar Black and Solar Chelsea Blue rank ahead of Sting Fuego when Fuego has beaten them both in either the PLD Tourney or league play???  The point system is interesting...Solar Black is currently 10 points ahead of Sting Fuego (even though they lost to Fuego head-to-head at PLD), and Solar Black has only one more win.  10 points seems like a fairly large difference.

I just find it interesting that Solar now occupies 3 or the top 4 spots (you better watch out Sting Black), when two of their teams (Solar Red and Solar Black) lost to the two Sting teams in head to head matches?  Seems a bit biased.

Solar Black played in gold at PLD and Fuego played in Silver at PLD------they did not play each other at PLD.   In fact when I look at Fuegos record I do not see a game between Solar Black and Fuego.  

I do see your question being a valid question about Solar Blue vs Sting Fuego.  It is true Fuego beat Solar Blue 1-0 at the PLD when they both played in Silver.     In league play Solar Blue is playing in Platinum and Fuego in Gold at UAL.   One of the reasons is Strength of Schedule.   Between Sting Fuego and Solar Blue right now there is less than a 3 point difference.  As games are dropped off from Spring and more games added from Fall time will tell the true picture there.

briggsn wrote:In other words, why does overtime even exist if it isn't going to be considered?  There are these things called "tie-breakers" to help place one team above another.

Thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only one dumbfounded by this. My soccer experience is relatively limited, but it seems to me that the stronger team usually wins in extra time, I'm talking all levels. I noticed this in the last World Cup.

I applaud Gophers for making a decision and being consistent, but I encourage the new publishers to make their own decisions. Goals are hard to come by and the top teams don't play each other that often. It seems silly to exclude such good data.

FBR06G wrote:

briggsn wrote:I understand the discussion, but I can't quite get to an agreement on the methodology of the rankings.  For example.... It seems to me that the rankings are saying the following....Let's look at how these team play each other (head-to-head), but in the likely event two of them tie each other, let's just forget about how the actual game ended.  In other words, why does overtime even exist if it isn't going to be considered?  There are these things called "tie-breakers" to help place one team above another.

Also, I am struggling to understand how Solar Black and Solar Chelsea Blue rank ahead of Sting Fuego when Fuego has beaten them both in either the PLD Tourney or league play???  The point system is interesting...Solar Black is currently 10 points ahead of Sting Fuego (even though they lost to Fuego head-to-head at PLD), and Solar Black has only one more win.  10 points seems like a fairly large difference.

I just find it interesting that Solar now occupies 3 or the top 4 spots (you better watch out Sting Black), when two of their teams (Solar Red and Solar Black) lost to the two Sting teams in head to head matches?  Seems a bit biased.

Solar Black played in gold at PLD and Fuego played in Silver at PLD------they did not play each other at PLD.   In fact when I look at Fuegos record I do not see a game between Solar Black and Fuego.  

I do see your question being a valid question about Solar Blue vs Sting Fuego.  It is true Fuego beat Solar Blue 1-0 at the PLD when they both played in Silver.     In league play Solar Blue is playing in Platinum and Fuego in Gold at UAL.   One of the reasons is Strength of Schedule.   Between Sting Fuego and Solar Blue right now there is less than a 3 point difference.  As games are dropped off from Spring and more games added from Fall time will tell the true picture there.

A team that plays in the 2nd tier of tournaments and leagues complaining about their top 10 ranking. That's rich.
Fuego is ranked too high IMO. But I know it all comes down to numbers. Keep racking up those W's.