unhappy? Already?

by pringlelover 07/08/12, 01:54 pm

I heard a few girls have already asked for releases. mainly from Defeeters and Sting(good top teams). Has anyone heard of this happening this early in the game. Is it happening on other teams. Will any coaches grant a release this early??? Will these players be accountable to pay the complete full year's worth of fees if they are allowed to leave.?? Just wanting to know if these are issolated incidents or widespread. I think the money only would be a reason to stick it out a year.

by Guest 07/08/12, 02:30 pm

by pringlelover 07/08/12, 03:16 pm

Yes but the alternative is your dd not playing for a whole year right? You cant practice or guest play in tournaments even right?I do agree tho but wonder if sitting out a year would get them behind the game. Just windering.and wanting thoughts an or experience.

by reysiller 07/08/12, 03:20 pm

Just so we are all on the same page with this. I asked a lawyer about clubs making kids sign these contracts and they are not a binding legal document. If this was taken to any Texas court it would be thrown out and would be deemed non binding. These are 10- 11 yr old kids. Really why would you keep them on your team anyway?

by Guest 07/08/12, 03:23 pm

reysiller wrote:Just so we are all on the same page with this. I asked a lawyer about clubs making kids sign these contracts and they are not a binding legal document. If this was taken to any Texas court it would be thrown out and would be deemed non binding. These are 10- 11 yr old kids. Really why would you keep them on your team anyway?

The kids' signatures mean nothing. They are just for show. But the parents' signatures are binding. You didn't give your lawyer all the information. The contracts are very clear.

by Guest 07/08/12, 03:26 pm

pringlelover wrote:Yes but the alternative is your dd not playing for a whole year right? You cant practice or guest play in tournaments even right?I do agree tho but wonder if sitting out a year would get them behind the game. Just windering.and wanting thoughts an or experience.

This is incorrect. A player can get a release even this early and practice with the team of their choice. If the coach won't sign the release, NTSSA will. They can also guest play in almost all tournaments although there are a few caveats. But as mentioned earlier, the parents are still responsible for their dues since they signed the contracts.

by Guest 07/08/12, 03:26 pm

pringlelover wrote: Has anyone heard of this happening this early in the game.

Um... Yes.

http://www.txsoccer.net/t8082-ok-i-signed-with-the-anti-christ-how-do-i-get-out-of-it

by pringlelover 07/08/12, 04:49 pm

just shocked anyone who made D1 would want out so quickly.

by SolarPower00 07/08/12, 05:09 pm

Just an academy parent so don't fuss at me...i know nothing. but would the club ever allow a release , without having to pay additional dues, if the kid was transferring to another team within the club...perhaps one that is also D1?

by ralfdallas 07/08/12, 05:18 pm

pringlelover wrote:just shocked anyone who made D1 would want out so quickly.

D1 means beans if it appears your kid's coach undervalues her and/or if the sideline is full of intolerable jackasses who think it's okay to yell at other people's kids.

by ballhead 07/08/12, 05:20 pm

SolarPower00 wrote:Just an academy parent so don't fuss at me...i know nothing. but would the club ever allow a release , without having to pay additional dues, if the kid was transferring to another team within the club...perhaps one that is also D1?

Transferring to another team in the same club would likely not cause any problem.

The bark is usually worse than the bite from the club's standpoint. The real problem is the team, which was budgeted with the # of players committed, and the shortfall will fall on the remaining player's families.

by yo#10 07/08/12, 08:20 pm

ralfdallas wrote:
pringlelover wrote:just shocked anyone who made D1 would want out so quickly.

D1 means beans if it appears your kid's coach undervalues her and/or if the sideline is full of intolerable jackasses who think it's okay to yell at other people's kids.

You are right on da $$$$And feet and Sting arent only top teams experiencing this. I know people on a top 3 team who already wishin they hadn't signed papers. Good starting players just not feelin it's right place. ya know.ALL Kids arent being valued-coach focusing on 2 kids and thats it-giving chances to just a few kids just showin confidence in a few rather than seeing if there's some other kids who can step up. Huge favortism shown(to few kids and parents)-other parents seen it-kids see it all around NOT GOOD,typically tight group is really broken so early in season. Be real suprised if team makes it with all players intact to end of year. And if a strong group or strong few leave; this team will maybe be top 10 but not able to contend with top 5-no way. Especially if they are playing against former teammates that coach doesnt think twice about. .

by blondefish 08/08/12, 09:11 am

Xara wrote:
pringlelover wrote:Yes but the alternative is your dd not playing for a whole year right? You cant practice or guest play in tournaments even right?I do agree tho but wonder if sitting out a year would get them behind the game. Just windering.and wanting thoughts an or experience.

This is incorrect. A player can get a release even this early and practice with the team of their choice. If the coach won't sign the release, NTSSA will. They can also guest play in almost all tournaments although there are a few caveats. But as mentioned earlier, the parents are still responsible for their dues since they signed the contracts.

Yes, NTX might release your player to REC without your coach's blessing, but you won't be able to transfer to another select team without it.

My suggestion is to have a talk with the coach. Let him/her know your concerns. If that doesn't work, then speak to your DOC.
It might seem easier to simply try to work around the system, but I can tell you that the soccer world in NTX is very small. It's always been my opinion that you don't want to burn a bridge behind you after you've crossed over it.

by Guest 08/08/12, 10:30 am

blondefish wrote:
Xara wrote:
pringlelover wrote:Yes but the alternative is your dd not playing for a whole year right? You cant practice or guest play in tournaments even right?I do agree tho but wonder if sitting out a year would get them behind the game. Just windering.and wanting thoughts an or experience.

This is incorrect. A player can get a release even this early and practice with the team of their choice. If the coach won't sign the release, NTSSA will. They can also guest play in almost all tournaments although there are a few caveats. But as mentioned earlier, the parents are still responsible for their dues since they signed the contracts.

Yes, NTX might release your player to REC without your coach's blessing, but you won't be able to transfer to another select team without it.

My suggestion is to have a talk with the coach. Let him/her know your concerns. If that doesn't work, then speak to your DOC.
It might seem easier to simply try to work around the system, but I can tell you that the soccer world in NTX is very small. It's always been my opinion that you don't want to burn a bridge behind you after you've crossed over it.

What Xara wrote is absolutely correct. With a rec release signed by NTSSA, you may practice with another select team and you can guest play with another select team in any tournament that allows for guest players, as long as the team that you were released from is not playing in the same tournament.

Select league play is a different story, as the leagues "freeze" their rosters and do not allow guest players. To play in a select league with another team, you would need a "competitive" release signed by your current coach.

HOWEVER, even if you can get a competitive release, you will NOT be able to play for another team in Lake Highlands until after the fall season is completed. Lake Highlands has a rule that you can not play for a team in QT and then transfer to another team until after the fall season is completed, even if you have a competitive release through NTSSA.

If you want to play in a league with a rec release, you will only be limited to playing in rec (or a league like PSA, which operates outside of NTSSA).

by wilatnus 08/08/12, 10:38 am

So how much movement will we see after the first full season? Gophers, will teams that made LH actually not come back next fall? Has that happened before? How much recruiting still occurs even though we are theoretically all set at this point?

by Guest 08/08/12, 11:18 am

wilatnus wrote:So how much movement will we see after the first full season? Gophers, will teams that made LH actually not come back next fall? Has that happened before? How much recruiting still occurs even though we are theoretically all set at this point?

Go look at the 01 threads from earlier this summer prior to signing day. Major players move all the time. Players released prior to spring season but coaches wouldnt sign releases until after State cup rosters were frozen to keep players from popping up on oppositions bench against them.

There will always be turnover, especially after the first full year of select.

by Guest 08/08/12, 11:42 am

Ultimately, it depends on the relationship with your coach! He can just release you to practice with another team. I saw many players with practice releases before state cup!.

by Guest 08/08/12, 12:12 pm

wilatnus wrote:So how much movement will we see after the first full season? Overall, you will see plenty. The average seems to be around 4-5 players turning over per team from U11 to U12. Some '01 teams only had 1 or 2 players change, some had as many as 9 or 10 players change. Even the top D1 teams were not immune to this.

Gophers, will teams that made LH actually not come back next fall? Has that happened before? Yes, and Yes. Just like you saw some top academy teams go "poof" between the end of Spring season and signing day, you will see select teams do the same, and for many of the same reasons. FCD West finished in 16th place in U11 D1 this past year, earning a bye into D2 for U12, but folded this Spring. 3 out of the 4 teams that finished at the bottom of U11 D3 this year (and would have had to re-qualify through QT to get back into D3 for U12) no longer exist.

How much recruiting still occurs even though we are theoretically all set at this point? Recruiting is illegal, isn't it??? Trust me, it NEVER stops.

by JeffM 08/08/12, 01:20 pm

bwgophers wrote:
wilatnus wrote:So how much movement will we see after the first full season? Overall, you will see plenty. The average seems to be around 4-5 players turning over per team from U11 to U12. Some '01 teams only had 1 or 2 players change, some had as many as 9 or 10 players change. Even the top D1 teams were not immune to this.

Gophers, will teams that made LH actually not come back next fall? Has that happened before? Yes, and Yes. Just like you saw some top academy teams go "poof" between the end of Spring season and signing day, you will see select teams do the same, and for many of the same reasons. FCD West finished in 16th place in U11 D1 this past year, earning a bye into D2 for U12, but folded this Spring. 3 out of the 4 teams that finished at the bottom of U11 D3 this year (and would have had to re-qualify through QT to get back into D3 for U12) no longer exist.

How much recruiting still occurs even though we are theoretically all set at this point? Recruiting is illegal, isn't it??? Trust me, it NEVER stops.

And going forward you will find the highest risk of teams disintegrating between seasons are those that are being relegated, or not getting a bye. For example, in the '96s there was one D-I team, a D-II team, and a D-III team that went away from last year. The D-I team was headed to D-II, the D-II was headed to D-III, and the D-III team failed to get a bye.

by OrangeBlooded 08/08/12, 01:32 pm

JeffM wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
wilatnus wrote:So how much movement will we see after the first full season? Overall, you will see plenty. The average seems to be around 4-5 players turning over per team from U11 to U12. Some '01 teams only had 1 or 2 players change, some had as many as 9 or 10 players change. Even the top D1 teams were not immune to this.

Gophers, will teams that made LH actually not come back next fall? Has that happened before? Yes, and Yes. Just like you saw some top academy teams go "poof" between the end of Spring season and signing day, you will see select teams do the same, and for many of the same reasons. FCD West finished in 16th place in U11 D1 this past year, earning a bye into D2 for U12, but folded this Spring. 3 out of the 4 teams that finished at the bottom of U11 D3 this year (and would have had to re-qualify through QT to get back into D3 for U12) no longer exist.

How much recruiting still occurs even though we are theoretically all set at this point? Recruiting is illegal, isn't it??? Trust me, it NEVER stops.

And going forward you will find the highest risk of teams disintegrating between seasons are those that are being relegated, or not getting a bye. For example, in the '96s there was one D-I team, a D-II team, and a D-III team that went away from last year. The D-I team was headed to D-II, the D-II was headed to D-III, and the D-III team failed to get a bye.

Another example consistent with this, 3 of the 4 '01 teams that didn't get D3 byes after last year folded this summer. The 4th failed to qualify.

by soccersounder 08/08/12, 02:14 pm

bwgophers wrote:
blondefish wrote:
Xara wrote:
pringlelover wrote:Yes but the alternative is your dd not playing for a whole year right? You cant practice or guest play in tournaments even right?I do agree tho but wonder if sitting out a year would get them behind the game. Just windering.and wanting thoughts an or experience.

This is incorrect. A player can get a release even this early and practice with the team of their choice. If the coach won't sign the release, NTSSA will. They can also guest play in almost all tournaments although there are a few caveats. But as mentioned earlier, the parents are still responsible for their dues since they signed the contracts.

Yes, NTX might release your player to REC without your coach's blessing, but you won't be able to transfer to another select team without it.

My suggestion is to have a talk with the coach. Let him/her know your concerns. If that doesn't work, then speak to your DOC.
It might seem easier to simply try to work around the system, but I can tell you that the soccer world in NTX is very small. It's always been my opinion that you don't want to burn a bridge behind you after you've crossed over it.

What Xara wrote is absolutely correct. With a rec release signed by NTSSA, you may practice with another select team and you can guest play with another select team in any tournament that allows for guest players, as long as the team that you were released from is not playing in the same tournament.

Select league play is a different story, as the leagues "freeze" their rosters and do not allow guest players. To play in a select league with another team, you would need a "competitive" release signed by your current coach.

HOWEVER, even if you can get a competitive release, you will NOT be able to play for another team in Lake Highlands until after the fall season is completed. Lake Highlands has a rule that you can not play for a team in QT and then transfer to another team until after the fall season is completed, even if you have a competitive release through NTSSA.

If you want to play in a league with a rec release, you will only be limited to playing in rec (or a league like PSA, which operates outside of NTSSA).

Very accurate info, except for the highlighted. No rule against this. My DD has done just that (played as a GP in a Tourney vs the team she was rostered with), even with that team protesting to NTX.. Just ask Dallasdude.... Very Happy

by gooner 08/08/12, 04:28 pm

by Guest 08/08/12, 05:15 pm

soccersounder wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
What Xara wrote is absolutely correct. With a rec release signed by NTSSA, you may practice with another select team and you can guest play with another select team in any tournament that allows for guest players, as long as the team that you were released from is not playing in the same tournament.

Select league play is a different story, as the leagues "freeze" their rosters and do not allow guest players. To play in a select league with another team, you would need a "competitive" release signed by your current coach.

HOWEVER, even if you can get a competitive release, you will NOT be able to play for another team in Lake Highlands until after the fall season is completed. Lake Highlands has a rule that you can not play for a team in QT and then transfer to another team until after the fall season is completed, even if you have a competitive release through NTSSA.

If you want to play in a league with a rec release, you will only be limited to playing in rec (or a league like PSA, which operates outside of NTSSA).

Very accurate info, except for the highlighted. No rule against this. My DD has done just that (played as a GP in a Tourney vs the team she was rostered with), even with that team protesting to NTX.. Just ask Dallasdude....

You may be correct, as I am not sure of the exact circumstances you are referring to...

The NTSSA rule I was refering to is 4.7.1.5:

"If a coach refuses to sign a guest player release for tournament play occurring during the
month of June (or a tournament that includes any part of June), the guest player release may
be presented to North Texas Soccer for approval by the Youth Commissioner. If the player’s
current team is not playing in any US Youth Soccer sanctioned tournament or other US Youth
Soccer sanctioned event during the time specified on the guest player release, permission to
guest play will be granted. (The above does not include indoor soccer.)"

This actually only refers to the month of June which is the "free-agent" period. It could be that a player who gets their rec release at some point prior to June is not restricted from guest playing in tournaments that their previous team is playing in. Best advice is to check with NTSSA ahead of time.

by mamasoccer 08/08/12, 06:20 pm

All good information.. this has been a fun thread to read. Thanks for all the information.. good to know.

I guess I am baffled that people are disgruntled after only King Tut/Puma and Lake Highlands. Wondering whether these were kids that were already on their team and didn't make the move before signing or are these kids on a new team and didn't get to play very much in the first two/three tournaments to start the season.

If they were on the team.. they should have seen the writing on the wall before they signed.

If they are new to the team.. then they have to know that the qualifying stuff is only a small snapshot. Of course, coaches are going to go with the players they think can get the job done in qualifying.. that is their job.. to get their team placed. The season is long.. seems like all the kids will get the opportunities throughout the season.

I have told my kid she every time she goes to practice, plays a game... she is earning her spot. Every time. Nothing is guaranteed. In a year.. if it is not what she had hoped for.. then we will re-evaluate but for now she needs to suck it up, go out and play, and when she gets her opportunities on the field.. make them count! Starting, not starting, 10 minutes, or more than half a game. It is up to her to put in the time and the effort and to prove that she deserves to be on the field every game.

I think they should give it time. Give the coach time. Seems silly to go through contract signing and qualifying and want to give up.

Sometimes the best lessons and the greatest growth come through adversity.

by Coach&Ref 08/08/12, 07:29 pm

mamasoccer wrote:
If they are new to the team.. then they have to know that the qualifying stuff is only a small snapshot. Of course, coaches are going to go with the players they think can get the job done in qualifying.. that is their job.. to get their team placed. The season is long.. seems like all the kids will get the opportunities throughout the season.

I have told my kid she every time she goes to practice, plays a game... she is earning her spot. Every time. Nothing is guaranteed. In a year.. if it is not what she had hoped for.. then we will re-evaluate but for now she needs to suck it up, go out and play, and when she gets her opportunities on the field.. make them count! Starting, not starting, 10 minutes, or more than half a game. It is up to her to put in the time and the effort and to prove that she deserves to be on the field every game.

I think they should give it time. Give the coach time. Seems silly to go through contract signing and qualifying and want to give up.

Sometimes the best lessons and the greatest growth come through adversity.

That line is interesting and very idealistic. Now is the time that coaches want to win. They aren't going to be bothered by playing players that they don't think will get that job done.

This is what bothers many people. Let me give you some examples:

Some girls are "Gamers". They are lazy in practice and sometimes don't even show up without any good reason. However, they are fantastic in games. If the other parents are on-board with the most important thing is for the team to win, then that should not be a problem.

Also, what about the girls that rarely show up at practice due to other commitments, but are working hard behind-the-scenes? These girls may not be able to make quite a few practices, but their outside work is more than the rest of the girls (ex. they may be getting private lessons, practicing with a sibling's team with a release due to logistical reasons). These girls may be starters because they are just better.

The problem with the latter is that the player is rarely seen, so parents will look at this as unfair, because their girls come to every practice and work hard.

The problem with the former is that, again, parents see this as unfair because, in actuality, they are NOT on-board with just winning, but want their daughters to play or start because they think that's "fair".

Also, coaches that have sons or daughters on the team who are mediocre and not nearly as good as some bench players, but who play ALL game, is viewed as unfair.

Unfortunately, the "work-hard-and-be-rewarded" thinking is a nice fantasy, but just like in business, success is most important and, in the end, clubs are businesses. Plus, favoritism by coaches playing their own kids or others is tragic, but reality.

Coaches will have parent meetings and tell you that playing time is determined by: coming to practice, practicing hard, etc. etc. Some coaches are good about being fair and have enough quality to make that happen, but many do not.

Keep in mind, these are just some things that can cause derision and division within a team, yet with a great winning record, a coach may not care and just hope to attract new players the next season who are better anyway.

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