'04 League Scores 4/5 thru 4/6

We should all be proud. 11 pages and no real mention of the "Force". Lets mend some fences people.

slrsoccer wrote:Sting (all) - hoof!

I played a lot of soccer, although it has been almost 20 years, but what does this mean?

TatonkaBurger wrote:

slrsoccer wrote:Sting (all) - hoof!

I played a lot of soccer, although it has been almost 20 years, but what does this mean?

Hoof the ball upfield!

go99 wrote:I work with a guy who's daughter goes to school with a girl who's cousin was at the game on the field next to DTS.  That is exactly how it happened

You work with cowpukesfan?

Master Bates wrote:

TatonkaBurger wrote:

slrsoccer wrote:Sting (all) - hoof!

I played a lot of soccer, although it has been almost 20 years, but what does this mean?

Hoof the ball upfield!

Not all Sting teams. Sting Goodman played possession. Kept possession most of the time. CJ always told the girls to never just kick it fwd. I can agree with Sting East loves the kick ball.

100% agree with Sweet Feet. CJ Goodman is big on possession.

Kick ball implies kicking the ball with no purpose. Whether the pass is 2 yards or 30 yards. I see a lot of teams play 2 yard kick ball. Keep possession with no purpose. I've seen defenders control the ball with two players on them because they don't have the ability to clear a ball first time (it's not easy). Remember, the hardest thing in soccer is to score goals not who can pass the ball the most with no purpose. You should never tell a kid not to score... it's the fun part of the game

Posession vs. Long Ball - the oldest argument in Soccer...Pompey makes a point that posession without intent is counterproductive.

Posession requires skill and soccer IQ to move the ball whilst keeping possession until such time as the defense loses shape, thus giving a player ample time to evaluate their passing option - which may be a back pass, a forward pass or a through ball.  With those extra couple seconds, the player posessing the ball can evaluate the positions of their teammates, and similarly, their teammates can make timed runs or move to space to recieve for the next passing opportunity.

Long ball, if played correctly, dismisses possession to a certain extent, and instead relies on outright speed and timed runs from forwards as the ball is coming out of the defensive end.  This still requires skill, mind you.

Kickball is only successful if you have big, fast, aggressive players that can challenge for any ball within 10 yards of them.  With a roster full of BFAs, you can make LH (and possibly do well), but won't get much respect from the soccer purists, or college coaches for that matter.

all mumbo-jumbo. possession is over rated. make a goal as fast as you can!!! been telling Deleon for years but he wont listen.!

Nocrying wrote:all mumbo-jumbo.  possession is over rated.  make a goal as fast as you can!!!  been telling Deleon for years but he wont listen.!

 

 

Possession is important for long term growth, stability, results and recognition. It works better for much more seasoned teams who have been playing together for sometime and have that trust with each other, ie: RASE and DT Scott, but it takes time for players on less mature teams to get there. So, let's build team confidence with more wins by playing a combination of possession while sending the ball forward, at times, for more goals or a win. Heck, at least with free kicks and goal kicks!

bwgophers wrote:

canaryman wrote:Wonder how Gophers will handle that on the FBR...just count it as new team?

Based on information from multiple sources, and what is posted on the SDL schedule, this is how I plan on treating the situation going forward:

Sting '04 Diaz will be treated as a continuation of Sting '04 Goodman/Tallal.
FCD Central '04 Tallal will be treated as a continuation of Sting '04 Tallal/Goodman.
FCD Central '04 Premier Tallal will be treated as a new team and will appear in the rankings once they have met the 3-game minimum for inclusion.

Time will sort everything out, and all of these teams will settle in to their appropriate placement based on their game results.

Time will sort things out, but in the meantime what will be the FBR effect on a team that plays against the team you are treating as a new team coming up to the end of this season and into the post season? If a team wins vs the new team will that mitigate an upward ranking move and conversely will losing to this new team cause a disproportionate drop being that have no history of games?

It seems to me that treating Diaz as the continuation protects their ranking, at least in the short term - maybe right up to the QT. Not sure if I agree with that, but my concern is not so much with their ranking as much as it is the ranking effect (positive or negative) on those teams who will play against either Diaz or the new team in the short term. Maybe you can offer some clarification on that.

Good thing FBR isn't used for QT seeding.

jsullivan81 wrote:Good thing FBR isn't used for QT seeding.

OK so we know they don't use FBR. If they use got soccer they are missing a lot as Primetime doesn't use Got Soccer for leagues or tourneys.

So how do they seed them??

WingNut wrote:

jsullivan81 wrote:Good thing FBR isn't used for QT seeding.

OK so we know they don't use FBR.    If they use got soccer they are missing a lot as Primetime doesn't use Got Soccer for leagues or tourneys.

So how do they seed them??

Look at page 4: http://www.girlsclassicleague.org/lhgclbylawsandrules/IIIQualifyingRulesforLHGCLVer0302V13.pdf

I must be missing how they seed them in that doc  

soccerdad1969 wrote:I must be missing how they seed them in that doc  

I just noticed that it doesn't go into detail but I believe there are two different QT's...  the Round 1 QT which creates the seeding and lasts like 4 or 5 days and then the Round 2 QT...  prior to that I am not sure if seeding is done...  I do know that the King Tut Tournament is quite important as well... Seems last year there were 52 teams that were accepted to the tournament of which only 30 advanced...

SoccerShocker wrote:

soccerdad1969 wrote:I must be missing how they seed them in that doc  

I just noticed that it doesn't go into detail but I believe there are two different QT's...  the Round 1 QT which creates the seeding and lasts like 4 or 5 days and then the Round 2 QT...  prior to that I am not sure if seeding is done...  I do know that the King Tut Tournament is quite important as well...

Thats what i was wondering. For the QT how do they rank them for seeding. I know Tut is important but a couple top 10 teams didnt play it last year and still had a good ranking for the QT

WingNut wrote:

SoccerShocker wrote:

soccerdad1969 wrote:I must be missing how they seed them in that doc  

I just noticed that it doesn't go into detail but I believe there are two different QT's...  the Round 1 QT which creates the seeding and lasts like 4 or 5 days and then the Round 2 QT...  prior to that I am not sure if seeding is done...  I do know that the King Tut Tournament is quite important as well...

Thats what i was wondering.  For the QT how do they rank them for seeding.  I know Tut is important but a couple top 10 teams didnt play it last year and still had a good ranking for the QT

There are some answers here as well it appears: http://www.txsoccer.net/t9444-what-decides-lhgcl-tourney-seeding

WingNut wrote:

SoccerShocker wrote:

soccerdad1969 wrote:I must be missing how they seed them in that doc  

I just noticed that it doesn't go into detail but I believe there are two different QT's...  the Round 1 QT which creates the seeding and lasts like 4 or 5 days and then the Round 2 QT...  prior to that I am not sure if seeding is done...  I do know that the King Tut Tournament is quite important as well...

Thats what i was wondering.  For the QT how do they rank them for seeding.  I know Tut is important but a couple top 10 teams didnt play it last year and still had a good ranking for the QT

They may have been in the Puma Cup or another post contract signing / pre QT tournament and did very well...

FYI.. Enjoy

"QT Seeding:

Lake Highlands reps out watching games at the primary July tournaments, most notably King TUT and Puma Cup. They will use their observation from these games, and will also get the opinions of various people from the NTX soccer community that they know and respect (i.e. various DOC’s, or long-time coaches in NTX, etc.). To my knowledge, any rankings and/or opinions posted the forum mean diddly-squat when it comes to QT seeding. Also, to my knowledge, there is minimal consideration given to tournament/league results from prior to July 1st, as rosters can change significantly between the Spring and signing day. Don’t bother trying to predict the QT seeding. Overall, it will be pretty good, but there are always some head scratchers and plenty of complaints.

QT Format:

Typically, somewhere between 40-50 teams apply and are accepted to participate in the LHGCL QT. To give a general idea of how the QT will be set-up, I will show an example for a 48 team QT below:

48 teams would be split into twelve 4-Team Pools, using a standard serpentine method from the seeding as follows:


https://servimg.com/view/15780058/595


In general, the seeding committee will make minor adjustments to the seeding such that teams from the same club are not placed in the same pool for week 1 of the QT. Each team will play the other 3 teams in its pool. 10 pt. scoring system used (6 pts. for a W, 3 pts. for a tie, 0 pts. for a loss, 1 pt. for each goal scored up to a max. of 3 in a single game, 1 pt for a shutout).

The 12 Pool winners from week #1 qualify for the 20 team U11 D1 “Supergroup” and are done playing.

The 4th place finishers with the X lowest point totals are eliminated from the QT after round 1. X will usually be the number of teams required to reduce the # of remaining teams to 28. In the case of a 48 team QT, X will be 8 teams (48 – 12 – 8 = 28).

The remaining 28 teams will proceed to week 2 of the QT, and seven 4-team pools will be formed based on the results from week 1 play as follows (where “L2” = the week 1 Pool L 2nd place team, based on week 1 points scored). The 4th place teams may get shifted between pools if needed to avoid any week 1 rematches in week 2.


https://servimg.com/view/15780058/596


Points do NOT carry over from week 1 to week 2. In week 2, each team again plays the other 3 teams in their pool, using the same 10 point system. The 7 week 2 pool winners qualify for the 20 team U11 D1 Supergroup. In addition, in the 48 team scenario, the 2nd place team with the highest point total will also qualify for the 20 team D1 Supergroup. The remaining 6 2nd place teams from week 2 + the 4 3rd place teams with the highest point total will qualify for U11 D3. The remaining 3 3rd place teams, and all 4th place teams from week 2 are eliminated.

Now, the 48 team example I gave above is a general guide. Based on the actual # of teams that apply and are accepted for the QT, the # of week 1 brackets and the placement of the seeds can vary.

Example 2: The ’01 QT had 43 teams. Week 1 was ten 4-team pools and one 3-team pool. In that case, they did straight serpentine seeding with Pool A as the 3-team pool with seeds 1, 22, & 23. All 3 teams from Pool A knew going in to week 1, that at worst case, they were going to make it to week #2. 11 week 1 pool winners qualified for D1 Supergroup. 5 4th place teams with lowest point totals were eliminated after week 1. Seven 4-team pools in week 2. 7 Week 2 pool winners + 2 2nd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D1 Supergroup. Remaining 5 2nd place teams + 5 3rd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D3.

Example #3: The ’02 QT had 45 teams. Week 1 was nine 4-team pools + three 3-team pools. Top 24 seeds were done via regular serpentine method, but seed #25 was placed in Pool D instead of Pool A, and the serpentine progressed from there such that the bottom 3 seeds (#43, 44, 45) ended up in 3-Team Pools A, B, & C and were treated as #4 seeds (in other words, Pools A, B, & C didn’t have a #3 seed in them). 12 Week 1 Pool winners qualified for D1 Supergroup. The 3 last placed teams from the 3-Team Pools + the 9 last placed teams from the 4-Team pools were evaluated on a points/per game basis, and the 5 teams with the lowest points/game totals were eliminated. Remaining 28 teams place in seven 4-team pools in week 2. 7 Week 2 Pools winners + 2nd place team with highest week 2 point total qualified for D1 supergroup. Remaining 6 2nd place teams + 4 3rd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D3.


U11 DI = 20 Teams
1st thru 10th place earn a BYE and remain in DI
11th thru 18th place earn a BYE and form DII
19th and 20th place earn a BYE and move to DIII

U11 DIII = 10 Teams
1st and 2nd place earn a BYE and move to DII
3rd thru 6th place earn a BYE and remain in DIII
7th thru 10th place do not receive a BYE and must re-qualify
There will be 4 open spots for DIII in QT"

Son_ofa_Pitch wrote:FYI.. Enjoy

"QT Seeding:

Lake Highlands reps out watching games at the primary July tournaments, most notably King TUT and Puma Cup. They will use their observation from these games, and will also get the opinions of various people from the NTX soccer community that they know and respect (i.e. various DOC’s, or long-time coaches in NTX, etc.). To my knowledge, any rankings and/or opinions posted the forum mean diddly-squat when it comes to QT seeding. Also, to my knowledge, there is minimal consideration given to tournament/league results from prior to July 1st, as rosters can change significantly between the Spring and signing day. Don’t bother trying to predict the QT seeding. Overall, it will be pretty good, but there are always some head scratchers and plenty of complaints.

QT Format:

Typically, somewhere between 40-50 teams apply and are accepted to participate in the LHGCL QT. To give a general idea of how the QT will be set-up, I will show an example for a 48 team QT below:

48 teams would be split into twelve 4-Team Pools, using a standard serpentine method from the seeding as follows:


https://servimg.com/view/15780058/595


In general, the seeding committee will make minor adjustments to the seeding such that teams from the same club are not placed in the same pool for week 1 of the QT. Each team will play the other 3 teams in its pool. 10 pt. scoring system used (6 pts. for a W, 3 pts. for a tie, 0 pts. for a loss, 1 pt. for each goal scored up to a max. of 3 in a single game, 1 pt for a shutout).

The 12 Pool winners from week #1 qualify for the 20 team U11 D1 “Supergroup” and are done playing.

The 4th place finishers with the X lowest point totals are eliminated from the QT after round 1. X will usually be the number of teams required to reduce the # of remaining teams to 28. In the case of a 48 team QT, X will be 8 teams (48 – 12 – 8 = 28).

The remaining 28 teams will proceed to week 2 of the QT, and seven 4-team pools will be formed based on the results from week 1 play as follows (where “L2” = the week 1 Pool L 2nd place team, based on week 1 points scored). The 4th place teams may get shifted between pools if needed to avoid any week 1 rematches in week 2.


https://servimg.com/view/15780058/596


Points do NOT carry over from week 1 to week 2. In week 2, each team again plays the other 3 teams in their pool, using the same 10 point system. The 7 week 2 pool winners qualify for the 20 team U11 D1 Supergroup. In addition, in the 48 team scenario, the 2nd place team with the highest point total will also qualify for the 20 team D1 Supergroup. The remaining 6 2nd place teams from week 2 + the 4 3rd place teams with the highest point total will qualify for U11 D3. The remaining 3 3rd place teams, and all 4th place teams from week 2 are eliminated.

Now, the 48 team example I gave above is a general guide. Based on the actual # of teams that apply and are accepted for the QT, the # of week 1 brackets and the placement of the seeds can vary.

Example 2: The ’01 QT had 43 teams. Week 1 was ten 4-team pools and one 3-team pool. In that case, they did straight serpentine seeding with Pool A as the 3-team pool with seeds 1, 22, & 23. All 3 teams from Pool A knew going in to week 1, that at worst case, they were going to make it to week #2. 11 week 1 pool winners qualified for D1 Supergroup. 5 4th place teams with lowest point totals were eliminated after week 1. Seven 4-team pools in week 2. 7 Week 2 pool winners + 2 2nd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D1 Supergroup. Remaining 5 2nd place teams + 5 3rd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D3.

Example #3: The ’02 QT had 45 teams. Week 1 was nine 4-team pools + three 3-team pools. Top 24 seeds were done via regular serpentine method, but seed #25 was placed in Pool D instead of Pool A, and the serpentine progressed from there such that the bottom 3 seeds (#43, 44, 45) ended up in 3-Team Pools A, B, & C and were treated as #4 seeds (in other words, Pools A, B, & C didn’t have a #3 seed in them). 12 Week 1 Pool winners qualified for D1 Supergroup. The 3 last placed teams from the 3-Team Pools + the 9 last placed teams from the 4-Team pools were evaluated on a points/per game basis, and the 5 teams with the lowest points/game totals were eliminated. Remaining 28 teams place in seven 4-team pools in week 2. 7 Week 2 Pools winners + 2nd place team with highest week 2 point total qualified for D1 supergroup. Remaining 6 2nd place teams + 4 3rd place teams with highest point totals qualified for D3.


U11 DI = 20 Teams
1st thru 10th place earn a BYE and remain in DI
11th thru 18th place earn a BYE and form DII
19th and 20th place earn a BYE and move to DIII

U11 DIII = 10 Teams
1st and 2nd place earn a BYE and move to DII
3rd thru 6th place earn a BYE and remain in DIII
7th thru 10th place do not receive a BYE and must re-qualify
There will be 4 open spots for DIII in QT"

Awesome!!! Thanks S.O.A.P.!!! I heard the same thing about the FBR is not going to really apply come QT's accept for a select few... the rest is all a crap shoot...

Awesome!!! Thanks S.O.A.P.!!! I heard the same thing about the FBR is not going to really apply come QT's accept for a select few... the rest is all a crap shoot...



Not a crapshoot. Although they may not consult FBR, it's pretty close.

Soccapeeps wrote:Awesome!!! Thanks S.O.A.P.!!! I heard the same thing about the FBR is not going to really apply come QT's accept for a select few... the rest is all a crap shoot...



Not a crapshoot. Although they may not consult FBR, it's pretty close.

Based on what I've heard there will be so much player movement, teams changing names/clubs that it could be very hard to truly trust the FBR - that's why so much weight is put on the tournaments between contracts and QTs...

OK, so they SAY that FBR is not used. But they do say that Puma and Tut are used.

Don't most tournament directors use FBR to seed their tournaments and determine what flights teams are put in? Also last year no games were played at Tut and only a few at Puma. Then the seeding committee would have to rely on the thoughts and opinions of coaches and DOCs. A lot of coaches on here also take stock in these rankings. So if the FBR is not directly used to influence the QT seeding, then I think it indirectly has a big part in it.

Sounds like we're all interested enough that someone might want to actually contact the league itself and ask that very simple question and see just how complicated the answer is... I expect the more complicated the answer the more obtuse they are trying to be as they have their own way of entering the U11's into the league for the first time regardless of what we think or attempt to argue...

SoccerShocker wrote:Sounds like we're all interested enough that someone might want to actually contact the league itself and ask that very simple question and see just how complicated the answer is...  I expect the more complicated the answer the more obtuse they are trying to be as they have their own way of entering the U11's into the league for the first time regardless of what we think or attempt to argue...  

The answer isn't going to be significantly different than what S.O.A.P. posted above (which was actually written and posted by me some time last year in the run-up to the '03 QT).  Seeding committee reps will be out in force at Puma Cup/King Tut, and you can also contact LHGCL and request them to send a seeding committee rep to come observe a scrimmage/friendly during July, and they will generally do so.  They will use their observations and discussions with people from within the NTX community, who's experience and opinions they trust (trust me, I am NOT in that category   ), to determine the seeding for the tournament.

You are going to hear all different kinds of machinations, and claims by parents/coaches, that playing in Puma Cup vs. King Tut or vice versa, is the better way to go because it will lead to getting a better seed.  Or maybe even not playing at all and inviting LHGCL to come watch a scrimmage will lead to a better seed.  It's all HOGWASH!!!

YOU CAN NOT PREDICT HOW THE SEEDING PROCESS WILL PLAY OUT!

IMO, if your coach is wasting any of his/her energy on trying to figure out how to best work the system to get a favorable seed, I would be extremely worried.  The coach should be making his/her decisions on what pre-QT tournaments to play/not play based 100% on what he/she feels will best prepare the team to be playing at 100% top form come the start of QT. Anything else is an absolute waste of time and energy.

Focus your energy on something that you have some chance of controlling (i.e. preparing your team to be playing at their absolute best).  Don't focus on something you have absolutely ZERO control over (QT seeding).

If your team is playing at it's best, it will not matter where you are seeded.  Your team will qualify exactly where they should.

...oh, and keep in mind, your coach could "work the system" perfectly, and your team could end up getting the highest seed you thought was possible... only to have LHGCL miscalculate on the seeding of one or more of the other teams in your bracket, that results in your team actually having a tougher bracket than they would have if they were seeded several spots lower... it's a total crap shoot...