Re: ECNL tryouts

by Big Poppy 04/06/14, 01:38 pm

Zizou wrote:I think we are looking at this all wrong! These are all past results. How many player will each team lose to ECNL. Hilton, Monty, Ft. worth Texans, Andromeda, and Guzman could be losing thier top 3-5 players. Add this to already loosing 4 out of the top five teams in LHGCL. Potentially losing the top 60 players out of 150 d-1 LHGCL.

As someone on the recruiting end of this situation, I can asssure you that you are exactly right. The best players on Guzman, Texans FW, Andromeda as well as some of the D2, D3 studs...will all be moving to ECNL or D1 rosters. This is not an opinion...it is fact and it has been taking place over the past month. Most, if not all of the free agent studs have been recruited and have multiple offers from the top clubs. All current LH D1 teams going to ECNL will only get better, stronger, faster and have more depth due to adding those 10-15 free agent players. At this point, retention seems to be relatively high with all teams moving to ECNL...thus...most coaches won't have to recreate strategies, lineups or playing schemes.

by Kenshi Dave 04/06/14, 02:12 pm

So ...

Playing Both ECNL/D1: Solar Red, FCD & Texans

ECNL Only: Feet

Unknown: Sting ... will they have 9 (n+1)?

by Big Poppy 04/06/14, 02:17 pm

Kenshi Dave wrote:So ...

Playing Both ECNL/D1: Solar Red, FCD & Texans

ECNL Only: Feet

Unknown: Sting ... will they have 9 (n+1)?

Kenshi....In all transparency.....I am only privy to what is happening with Solar.

by allhatnocattle 04/06/14, 02:18 pm

Big Poppy wrote:
Zizou wrote:I think we are looking at this all wrong! These are all past results. How many player will each team lose to ECNL. Hilton, Monty, Ft. worth Texans, Andromeda, and Guzman could be losing thier top 3-5 players. Add this to already loosing 4 out of the top five teams in LHGCL. Potentially losing the top 60 players out of 150 d-1 LHGCL.

As someone on the recruiting end of this situation, I can asssure you that you are exactly right. The best players on Guzman, Texans FW, Andromeda as well as some of the D2, D3 studs...will all be moving to ECNL or D1 rosters. This is not an opinion...it is fact and it has been taking place over the past month. Most, if not all of the free agent studs have been recruited and have multiple offers from the top clubs. All current LH D1 teams going to ECNL will only get better, stronger, faster and have more depth due to adding those 10-15 free agent players. At this point, retention seems to be relatively high with all teams moving to ECNL...thus...most coaches won't have to recreate strategies, lineups or playing schemes.

Wow, sounds like the Apocalypse is upon us. What D2 teams have been affected most?

by Guest 04/06/14, 02:25 pm

Big Poppy wrote:
Zizou wrote:I think we are looking at this all wrong! These are all past results. How many player will each team lose to ECNL. Hilton, Monty, Ft. worth Texans, Andromeda, and Guzman could be losing thier top 3-5 players. Add this to already loosing 4 out of the top five teams in LHGCL. Potentially losing the top 60 players out of 150 d-1 LHGCL.

As someone on the recruiting end of this situation, I can asssure you that you are exactly right. The best players on Guzman, Texans FW, Andromeda as well as some of the D2, D3 studs...will all be moving to ECNL or D1 rosters. This is not an opinion...it is fact and it has been taking place over the past month. Most, if not all of the free agent studs have been recruited and have multiple offers from the top clubs. All current LH D1 teams going to ECNL will only get better, stronger, faster and have more depth due to adding those 10-15 free agent players. At this point, retention seems to be relatively high with all teams moving to ECNL...thus...most coaches won't have to recreate strategies, lineups or playing schemes.

Lots of thoughts on this.

First, I'm not too worried about Guzman. Sting has enough talent that I'm certain if Guzman was gutted they'll round up all their non-ECNL talent and put together a very solid D1 team... and wouldn't surprise if they went with a new coach for that team.

Andro and DTFW on the other hand represent exactly the scenarios where LH shoots themselves in the foot letting clubs play games with the byes. Those teams earned their way to d1, and are chief among the ones getting hurt in all this.

No idea on spirit, but heard their difference makers have been recruited. So if they too can't backfill because the remaining talent has been lured into the 3 bye teams with promises of ECNL "dual roster" minutes, spirit will be in same boat as Andro and DTFW.

So what we'd end up with is 3 brand new teams of very talented players that haven't ever played together, 3 gutted teams, and 3 teams in Monte, Kicks and probably the Sting Hilton or Angel core that have been around for a while.

This talk about "facts" regarding "studs" and "top players" is very familiar. We hear the same thing every year with teams annointing themselves based on parent evaluations of recruited talent.

The truth is one coaches "stud" might be another coaches "I can't guarantee you'll play, but sign a contract and she might grow into it." We won't know how good these teams are until probably spring...late fall at the earliest.

Also the idea that 10 to 15 "strong" players are being added to these "pools", but the coaches won't be changing up lineups and strategies? Sounds naieve. More likely what's happening is the ONLY people who know where they truly stand are those at the top of rosters who sign ECNL-only contracts. Everyone else dual rostered, including the ones who played on the d1 teams last year, probably won't find out for sure what the coach is going to do with them, and what kind of minutes they'll get, until the ink has dried...long after July 1.

by Guest 04/06/14, 02:49 pm

Kenshi Dave wrote:

Unknown: Sting ... will they have 9 (n+1)?

The "inner circle" at Sting is holding their cards pretty close to the vest. I have simply been told that they "have plans in place" to cover multiple scenarios.

This, coupled with my observations of what has been going on in the ECNL, Guzman, and Hilton (now Donovan) camps over the past few weeks suggests the following...

Sting fully intends to have at least 1 D1 team LHGCL U14 next year. However, I believe that their strong preference is to not have to rely on the Flanny bye, and use the Guzman and/or Hilton byes for this.

If Solar/Texans/FCD all keep their D1 byes, but 'Feet doesn't, then Sting can relinquish the Flanny bye, as that would make Guzman's bye D1 for next year. Then, Sting doesn't have to go through all of the roster machinations of having to dual-roster U13 Flanny players that are only intending to play ECNL, and they can have all 18 D1 roster spots to play with as they see fit.

However, if all 4 of the other ECNL clubs manage to retain their byes, and none of the other current D1 byes are forfeited (Kicks SC, Andro, DTFW, DT Monte, Tx. Spirit), then I would expect Sting to maneuver in whatever way it takes to keep Flanny's bye, and force either DTFW or 'Feet down into D2. I'm pretty sure that there a more than enough Flanny players from last year still in the Sting family to be able to accomplish this.

Again, I have no confirmation of any of this, but the little bits that I have been told, line up with everything I've observed and/or heard.

by Guest 04/06/14, 03:11 pm

Hmmm interesting insight gophers. Does KM still hold some leadership position with ECNL?

Have to wonder would U.S. Club Soccer approve of the antics their u14 ECNL teams are about to attempt with rosters.

by soccersounder 04/06/14, 03:59 pm

4-3-3 wrote:Hmmm interesting insight gophers. Does KM still hold some leadership position with ECNL?

Have to wonder would U.S. Club Soccer approve of the antics their u14 ECNL teams are about to attempt with rosters.

Come on..Pay attention. Kenny Medina was the driving force bringing NTX to ECNL. That is the main reason Texans balked that first year. And please believe that other Leagues are interested in NTX. Who do you think they are calling? There is no person in girls NTX Soccer with more pull nationally and with the colleges than Kenny Medina..

And just do a little research, so you dont have to wonder...... This is a LHGCL rule that the Clubs are working around. Many many ECNL Clubs also play in local Leagues... Can someone name one good reason to have this LHGCL rule? I'm not saying there isn't. Just curious

by ImSoDone 04/06/14, 04:14 pm

Kenshi Dave wrote:So ...

Playing Both ECNL/D1: Solar Red, FCD & Texans

ECNL Only: Feet

Unknown: Sting ... will they have 9 (n+1)?

Pretty sure Flanny is not in for a bye...

by Guest 04/06/14, 04:16 pm

To be honest I've said the same thing behind closed doors. The rule doesn't make any sense, unless it was created with the influence of Texans that first year they didn't join ECNL.

I'm just wondering would ECNL look favorably on what's going on here....the part about rostering up tons of players who you have no intentions of ever setting foot on an ECNL field seems a little counter to the mission of ECNL. Since Kenny is an ECNL BOD, I wondered if its coincidence that Sting hasn't been as public about their plans to pull these shenanigans. Just posing the question...it's obviously all speculation from the outside looking in.

by Zizou 04/06/14, 04:21 pm

You won't know Sting's plans until they are done and have exactly what they want.

by oldboot 04/06/14, 04:48 pm

Zizou wrote:You won't know Sting's plans until they are done and have exactly what they want.

by Zizou 04/06/14, 04:49 pm

That's it!

by Guest 04/06/14, 05:08 pm

ImSoDone wrote:
Kenshi Dave wrote:So ...

Playing Both ECNL/D1: Solar Red, FCD & Texans

ECNL Only: Feet

Unknown: Sting ... will they have 9 (n+1)?

Pretty sure Flanny is not in for a bye...

I would agree with that, unless it comes down to a scenario where using that bye would be the only way that Sting could have a D1 team next year. If that were to end up being the case, I think you would see a "Plan B" put into play. Again, I have no first hand information on any of this, just my reading of the tea leaves.

I'm thinking KM and staff are keeping very close watch on how things are going down, and have a pretty good idea of where they stand, but have contingencies in place should anything change at the last minute.

by jamesscores 04/06/14, 10:06 pm

Some great thoughts on ECNL overall and the recruiting aspects of how all of this will shake out. The other aspect of all of this that I find very interesting is the effect it has already proven to have over many coaches. My DD has a close friend on FCD Grubb and it sounds like he's moved away from many of the top players that got him where he is because he wanted bigger players for ECNL. Any truth to this rumor? I also find it interesting to hear about the coaches from smaller clubs under great amounts of pressure to win, add new players and compete against the ECNL clubs to keep their top players. ECNL chatter started early and some crumbled fast and other came on strong. For Spirit, I think 4-3-3 may be right. That team won 10 games this past year but 8 of those wins were from last Fall. Did they have a different roster in the Spring? If my DD were there I would be keeping my ears open for other opportunities. I can confidently say that having a near perfect Fall and dreadful Spring (barring injury) is all coaching. Word is that their coach did not handle the pressure well and completely changed his approach, put endless amounts of pressure on the players and was a different person. A parent told me that several have bailed out or are looking at other teams and the new players coming out are no upgrade. It might be a short visit to DI. Kicks Gold on the other hand is in a great position. I'm hearing that Jaun has bunches of 01's visiting but only 1 spot available on Kicks top team. Why wouldn't you want to play for Gold? Not sure where they practice but I'd drive 45 minutes to be part of Kicks Nation.

by tako 05/06/14, 12:28 am

jamesscores wrote:Some great thoughts on ECNL overall and the recruiting aspects of how all of this will shake out. The other aspect of all of this that I find very interesting is the effect it has already proven to have over many coaches. My DD has a close friend on FCD Grubb and it sounds like he's moved away from many of the top players that got him where he is because he wanted bigger players for ECNL. Any truth to this rumor? I also find it interesting to hear about the coaches from smaller clubs under great amounts of pressure to win, add new players and compete against the ECNL clubs to keep their top players. ECNL chatter started early and some crumbled fast and other came on strong. For Spirit, I think 4-3-3 may be right. That team won 10 games this past year but 8 of those wins were from last Fall. Did they have a different roster in the Spring? If my DD were there I would be keeping my ears open for other opportunities. I can confidently say that having a near perfect Fall and dreadful Spring (barring injury) is all coaching. Word is that their coach did not handle the pressure well and completely changed his approach, put endless amounts of pressure on the players and was a different person. A parent told me that several have bailed out or are looking at other teams and the new players coming out are no upgrade. It might be a short visit to DI. Kicks Gold on the other hand is in a great position. I'm hearing that Jaun has bunches of 01's visiting but only 1 spot available on Kicks top team. Why wouldn't you want to play for Gold? Not sure where they practice but I'd drive 45 minutes to be part of Kicks Nation.

Stirring the pot a little are ya? Are you saying losing 2 games in the Spring is Dreadful? A near perfect Fall season is hard to repeat in the Spring, D2 had a lot of parity and it showed. Spirit earned a spot into D1 based on the results of the season. Not sure why you're taking a shot at them, their coach, and players coming out? Maybe you spoke with a parent of a dd that was cut? Maybe the stud from your dd's team left to join Spirit? Coach Willis has loads of integrity and the girls love playing for him, your pot shots speak volumes of yours.

by wxyz 05/06/14, 07:34 am

jamesscores wrote:Some great thoughts on ECNL overall and the recruiting aspects of how all of this will shake out. The other aspect of all of this that I find very interesting is the effect it has already proven to have over many coaches. My DD has a close friend on FCD Grubb and it sounds like he's moved away from many of the top players that got him where he is because he wanted bigger players for ECNL. Any truth to this rumor? I also find it interesting to hear about the coaches from smaller clubs under great amounts of pressure to win, add new players and compete against the ECNL clubs to keep their top players. ECNL chatter started early and some crumbled fast and other came on strong. For Spirit, I think 4-3-3 may be right. That team won 10 games this past year but 8 of those wins were from last Fall. Did they have a different roster in the Spring? If my DD were there I would be keeping my ears open for other opportunities. I can confidently say that having a near perfect Fall and dreadful Spring (barring injury) is all coaching. Word is that their coach did not handle the pressure well and completely changed his approach, put endless amounts of pressure on the players and was a different person. A parent told me that several have bailed out or are looking at other teams and the new players coming out are no upgrade. It might be a short visit to DI. Kicks Gold on the other hand is in a great position. I'm hearing that Jaun has bunches of 01's visiting but only 1 spot available on Kicks top team. Why wouldn't you want to play for Gold? Not sure where they practice but I'd drive 45 minutes to be part of Kicks Nation.

Pretty strong comments about FCD, probably from someone who has a bone to pick with FCD. What I heard is that Grubb is offering an ECNL roster spot (some dual in order to keep their D1 bye) to every player on the current roster, and that everyone has a shot at playing ECNL. No coach is stupid enough to prefer size over skills.

by Guest 05/06/14, 07:37 am

Nothing but respect for QW and what he and his parents have going at spirit. QW has been at this for a long time so to imply he couldn't handle the pressure of u13 d2 is kinda silly. I said nothing negative about spirit...only that they may be getting hurt by all this. And that wasn't firsthand knowledge. My dd hasn't been to any of the mass tryouts, so I'm living vicariously through parents that have. Lol. The info and player assessments from parents this time of year is notoriously unreliable...everyone joining the team they're headed to is a "difference maker" or "stud", everyone who chose somewhere else wasn't all that good anyway. Lol.

Given this is a difficult time with tough decisions for many families, I should stop with the commentary making light of it. Apologies to any I offended, except for STX Albion. I'm out on this one.

by Sweeper 05/06/14, 09:45 am

4-3-3 wrote:Apologies to any I offended, except for STX Albion. I'm out on this one.

Completely agree on STX Albion. Absolutely, hands down the most thugy and worst sportsmanship of any of the teams my DD has ever played. The parents are horrible too.

Since I am too lazy to figure this out and I know Gophers already has, if Solar, FCD and Texans keep their D1 byes and Sting and Feet do not, what do D1 - D2 - D3 look like next year with promotions and relegations? Probably a complicated answer, so best guess Gophers is fine.

by Guest 05/06/14, 10:20 am

Sweeper wrote:
4-3-3 wrote:Apologies to any I offended, except for STX Albion. I'm out on this one.

Completely agree on STX Albion. Absolutely, hands down the most thugy and worst sportsmanship of any of the teams my DD has ever played. The parents are horrible too.

Since I am too lazy to figure this out and I know Gophers already has, if Solar, FCD and Texans keep their D1 byes and Sting and Feet do not, what do D1 - D2 - D3 look like next year with promotions and relegations? Probably a complicated answer, so best guess Gophers is fine.

As you say, this is assuming that Solar/FCD/Texans retain their byes and Sting/Feet forfeit their byes, and all other teams from last year make and return with their current club:

D1:

Kicks SC
Solar Red
FC Dallas Premier
Dallas Texans
Andromeda
Dallas Texans FTW
Dallas Texans White
Tx. Spirit North
Sting Guzman

D2:

Kicks Gold
Sting Hilton
Sting East
Diamonds
Dallas Texans Red North
Liverpool Rush
Sting North Blue
Tx. Lightning Black
FWFC Black
Solar White

D3:

NTX Strikers
Redstar
Cosmos
Lady Aztecs
*FC Dallas
*Dallas Texans Red
*QT1
*QT2
*QT3
*QT4

*As I read the LHGCL rules, if 2 byes are forfeited, the 7th and 8th place teams from U13 D3 will be awarded byes into U14 D3, with 4 D3 spots being filled via QT.

by jae 05/06/14, 10:32 am

bwgophers wrote:
As you say, this is assuming that Solar/FCD/Texans retain their byes and Sting/Feet forfeit their byes, and all other teams from last year make and return with their current club:

D1:

Kicks SC
Solar Red
FC Dallas Premier
Dallas Texans
Andromeda
Dallas Texans FTW
Dallas Texans White
Tx. Spirit North
Sting Guzman

Just curious... Did you intend to list Sting Guzman last for any specific reason? The order in which other teams are listed seems to make sense.

by Guest 05/06/14, 10:38 am

jae wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
As you say, this is assuming that Solar/FCD/Texans retain their byes and Sting/Feet forfeit their byes, and all other teams from last year make and return with their current club:

D1:

Kicks SC
Solar Red
FC Dallas Premier
Dallas Texans
Andromeda
Dallas Texans FTW
Dallas Texans White
Tx. Spirit North
Sting Guzman

Just curious... Did you intend to list Sting Guzman last for any specific reason? The order in which other teams are listed seems to make sense.

It's the order in which the byes are awarded. Texans White and Tx. Spirit North are assured of D1 byes before Sting Guzman is. I did the same thing in D2 with Sting North Blue and Tx. Lightning Black being listed ahead of FWFC and Solar White.

by Sweeper 05/06/14, 10:50 am

Thanks Gophers. I figured you had it all mapped out and likely have run statistical analysis on the most likely scenarios. I find it ironic that the 01s would be the first age group for this to happen to. Maybe the 01s are as deep as some have been proclaiming, so it made sense for this to happen this year. Drama drama drama.

by Big Poppy 05/06/14, 11:00 am

Sweeper wrote:Thanks Gophers. I figured you had it all mapped out and likely have run statistical analysis on the most likely scenarios. I find it ironic that the 01s would be the first age group for this to happen to. Maybe the 01s are as deep as some have been proclaiming, so it made sense for this to happen this year. Drama drama drama.

Gophers is a "data" guy.....he truly knows his stuff!

by Grifter 05/06/14, 11:39 am

We are lucky to have the bwgophers to keep us all honest...

Honorable mentions are ItsMeAgain and 4-3-3.

is it August yet?

by dadof3 05/06/14, 01:02 pm

Sweeper wrote:Thanks Gophers. I figured you had it all mapped out and likely have run statistical analysis on the most likely scenarios. I find it ironic that the 01s would be the first age group for this to happen to. Maybe the 01s are as deep as some have been proclaiming, so it made sense for this to happen this year. Drama drama drama.

I was afraid this was going to happen last year with the 00s. Everyone assured me that the ECNL clubs had NO interest in keeping the spots in LH. They didn't.

It made no sense to me then that they would walk away from D1 teams that they could backfill easily from lower ranks on the promise of "ECNL club" and "possible dual rostering" and the like...

Though my dd is on a big club team, I can certainly see how frustrating it is for independents and smaller clubs with the CPP and now this idea. The big club model makes sense if it is builds in a "minor league" system to stock its top roster, but is easily abused by sending ECNL players down to get "touches" and thus avoid relegation and seal what is essentially an inferior team (without guest players) into the top divisions.

I can see a day where a "None of the Above" alliance could develop across several independents (if coaches wanted to unite in this regard) to CPP their own players to battle back...of course, it would take some agreement not to backstab each other on the way to a united goal...

Hmm when does the new season of LHs Game of Thrones start??

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