ECNL tryouts

ImSoDone wrote:"SO... a team who has to keep 9 rostered (going middle road) could add 9 new players.   Those 9 new players could be at every LH game... you could CPP 3 and then you really only need a few of your original roster..."


Again from the financial standpoint, so 9 players (who will always play) on the LH team will pay team and league fees for a roster of 18??     

A good question to ask.....

I suspect that each club will set one fee level for all players in the "pool"--ECNL only, dual-rostered, and LH only. In other words, everyone in the pool will share the total cost. CPP players, obviously, do not. With 30 players in the pool, it will be not much more than what one would pay with a roster of 15. The only extra costs for the pool vs. 2 teams would be extra league fees, if playing (e.g., Premier League--$900? divided by 30), dual-rostering fees, if any, and the cost of extra ECNL patches.

UltimateSoccerMom wrote:From Section III.C.2 of LHGCL League Rules

"(2) If a club registers a team for a non-North Texas league,
without that team also playing in a regularly scheduled
Division of Lake Highlands Girls Classic League, they will lose
the bye most closely associated with the group of girls leaving the
league. For example, if the majority of the girls are leaving from
Division I, a Division I Bye will be forfeited by that club in each
applicable age group. The Lake Highlands Girls Classic League
will make available participation in a separate division with an
abbreviated schedule and reduced league fee if a sufficient
number of teams agrees to participate with sufficient notice for
the coordination and scheduling of that division. The final
decision as to whether or not a separate division would be viable
will rest with the Lake Highlands Girls Classic League Board of
Directors."

THe rule uses majority...So...
Roster of 14... need 8
roster of 15...need 8
roster of 16... need 9
roster of 17... need 9
roster of 18 need 10.  

The rule does not say they have to play.   It says they have to be on the roster.  

SO... a team who has to keep 9 rostered (going middle road) could add 9 new players.   Those 9 new players could be at every LH game... you could CPP 3 and then you really only need a few of your original roster...  

I am not saying this what will happen... just throwing that out there....who knows how many of the original players and new players will be duel roster or only LH rostered....  Going to be interesting!

If one were to take the above "for example" literally, the rule is activated only if the majority leaves D1 to join a non-NT league.  So, if a team had a roster of 16 and 4 leave the club and join other clubs/teams in LH or quit soccer, the bye will be forfeited only if 7 (majority of remaining 12) are rostered only on their ECNL team.  So, they would need only 7 (dual) rostered on the LH.  Also, I suspect that the clubs will dual-roster players who are less likely to get much playing time on their ECNL team.  So, 4-5 of these dual-rostered players will play LH games and may not need to CPP many players.

We know for sure Monte and Spirit are going to D1. Based on what I'm hearing about early movement, it's highly unlikely all 5 teams can keep their D1 byes.

If Solar keeps their bye, Guzman goes to D2 for sure.

It sounds like several Flan studs going to Solar ECNL or scattering, so unlikely Flan keeps the Sting bye, in which case Kicks Gold is going to D1 as well.

If all the talent I've heard about is really going to Solar, it now makes sense that Solar wants to keep the bye...otherwise a bunch of really good Solar players would be out in the cold for u14.

Dfeeters are apparently in the best position to load up an almost entirely new ECNL team and leave the majority of their u13 roster in Lake highlands, but LH needs to resolve the tie between Feet and ft worth to determine if feet is getting relegated to d2.

FCD and Texans both would have a harder time fielding a top quality ECNL team without using most of their u13 rosters..i.e. their top teams were already very high quality, so harder for them to find a huge # of players who are upgrades.

My guess is only a few keep their byes...but I sure hope LH doesn't let this drag on and comes out with some clarification for the parents.

"FCD and Texans both would have a harder time fielding a top quality ECNL team without using most of their u13 rosters..i.e. their top teams were already very high quality, so harder for them to find a huge # of players who are upgrades."

The Texans were one of the first teams to declare that they will maintain their bye.  Scott will be the LH Coach and ECNL will be Coached by "Q".  FCD is also quickly building a D1 team in addition to the ECNL group.  From what I gather, Feet has no interest in a bye, and Flanny definitely is not.

ImSoDone wrote:"FCD and Texans both would have a harder time fielding a top quality ECNL team without using most of their u13 rosters..i.e. their top teams were already very high quality, so harder for them to find a huge # of players who are upgrades."

The Texans were one of the first teams to declare that they will maintain their bye.  Scott will be the LH Coach and ECNL will be Coached by "Q".  FCD is also quickly building a D1 team in addition to the ECNL group.  From what I gather, Feet has no interest in a bye, and Flanny definitely is not.

So if what you say is true D1 becomes:

Kicks
Solar Bates
FCD Grubb
Texans Scott
Texans Monte
Texans Ft. Worth
Andromeda
Texas Spirit
Sting Guzman


interesting....

4-3-3 wrote:We know for sure Monte and Spirit are going to D1. Based on what I'm hearing about early movement, it's highly unlikely all 5 teams can keep their D1 byes.  

If Solar keeps their bye, Guzman goes to D2 for sure.

It sounds like several Flan studs going to Solar ECNL or scattering, so unlikely Flan keeps the Sting bye, in which case Kicks Gold is going to D1 as well.

If all the talent I've heard about is really going to Solar, it now makes sense that Solar wants to keep the bye...otherwise a bunch of really good Solar players would be out in the cold for u14.

Dfeeters are apparently in the best position to load up an almost entirely new ECNL team and leave the majority of their u13 roster in Lake highlands, but LH needs to resolve the tie between Feet and ft worth to determine if feet is getting relegated to d2.

FCD and Texans both would have a harder time fielding a top quality ECNL team without using most of their u13 rosters..i.e. their top teams were already very high quality, so harder for them to find a huge # of players who are upgrades.

My guess is only a few keep their byes...but I sure hope LH doesn't let this drag on and comes out with some clarification for the parents.

Not quite sure if I understand your logic regarding who moves up/down...

If only Solar is successful in saving their bye, and even if up to 3 clubs are able to save their byes, no one moves down.

If 4 clubs are able to save their byes, Sting North Guzman moves down.

If all 5 clubs are able to save their byes, Guzman and [DTFW or Feet] move down.

In terms of moving up, Kicks Gold would move up only if 3 or more clubs fail to keep their bye.  Moving up to or staying in D1 priority order is Monte & Spirit, DTFW or Feet, Sting North Guzman, Kicks Gold, etc.

Looking at this from the players'/parents' perspective, almost every player on the ECNL clubs' top teams will be offered at least a "dual-roster" spot if the club is trying save their D1 bye.  Only reasons anyone would leave an ECNL club's top team is 1) if the player has no interest in (or not ready for) ECNL; or 2) if the player were offered a full ECNL spot from another club and the current club is offering only a "dual-roster" spot.

The bottom line is that ECNL clubs will protect their top talents by either offering full ECNL spots or a dual-roster spot with "whisper promises."  They could only recruit players from other ECNL clubs' top teams with full ECNL spots (dual-roster spots are not good enough).  So they are much more likely to look for talent for dual-roster and D1 teams from non-ECNL clubs or from lower ranked teams.

I suspect that any ECNL club that wants to save their D1 bye will be successful.  No guarantees on the talent level, though, since most of top talent will be playing ECNL games and only be "supporting" (via roster presence) LH games.

4-3-3 wrote:

ImSoDone wrote:"FCD and Texans both would have a harder time fielding a top quality ECNL team without using most of their u13 rosters..i.e. their top teams were already very high quality, so harder for them to find a huge # of players who are upgrades."

The Texans were one of the first teams to declare that they will maintain their bye.  Scott will be the LH Coach and ECNL will be Coached by "Q".  FCD is also quickly building a D1 team in addition to the ECNL group.  From what I gather, Feet has no interest in a bye, and Flanny definitely is not.

So if what you say is true D1 becomes:

Kicks
Solar Bates
FCD Grubb
Texans Scott
Texans Monte
Texans Ft. Worth
Andromeda
Texas Spirit
Sting Guzman


interesting....

Don't forget one thing... Monte has to keep 75% of their roster from last spring or else their bye actually reverts to Dallas Rush. I have no idea where that team stands, and how tight that group is to each other, because they can ill afford more than 3 or 4 players testing out ECNL waters or moving to DT Scott, etc...

jae wrote:Not quite sure if I understand your logic regarding who moves up/down....

You probably posted this before reading the D1 list I posted a while back...I thought at first Guzman would be relegated, but read the rules again and see that LH fills from D1 first instead of D2.

I think it's a toss up what this will do to the '01 age group. I'd rather see intact quality teams like Hilton, Sting East or Kicks Gold instead of last minute teams created from the ECNL cattle calls, but you never know it could work out with 9 quality teams entering D1.

bwgophers wrote:

Don't forget one thing...  Monte has to keep 75% of their roster from last spring or else their bye actually reverts to Dallas Rush.  I have no idea where that team stands, and how tight that group is to each other, because they can ill afford more than 3 or 4 players testing out ECNL waters or moving to DT Scott, etc...

Does Dallas Rush even have a '01 team? Maybe one of Rush's Houston '01 teams could play up here...  

jae wrote:

bwgophers wrote:

Don't forget one thing...  Monte has to keep 75% of their roster from last spring or else their bye actually reverts to Dallas Rush.  I have no idea where that team stands, and how tight that group is to each other, because they can ill afford more than 3 or 4 players testing out ECNL waters or moving to DT Scott, etc...

Does Dallas Rush even have a '01 team?  Maybe one of Rush's Houston '01 teams could play up here...  

That would be the interesting question... If that scenario came to fruition, would Rush try to throw a team together to claim the bye, or would they just let by go unclaimed, which would just move up the next team on the list into D1?

Can Dallas rush even pay a coach to throw together a team to get said bye? Lol

This conversation is comical. Why is it assumed that keeping a bye is such a negative thing. The club keeps the bye that it rightfully earned and adds some new players to the 10-11 that stick around from last year. The Ecnl team adds some new players and the LH team adds some new players. Both teams roster 18 players but probably have 14-15 show up for each game. More playing time for everyone and I am pretty sure that they can figured out to spread the cost so that players are only paying for one annual fee.

Solar and the Texans have it figured out and it will provide more opportunity for all of their players. And there are plenty of top level players out there willing to move from an independent team to one of the Ecnl clubs so its not like its hard to find girls willing to move to these teams.

Pinnochio wrote:This conversation is comical. Why is it assumed that keeping a bye is such a negative thing. The club keeps the bye that it rightfully earned and adds some new players to the 10-11 that stick around from last year. The Ecnl team adds some new players and the LH team adds some new players. Both teams roster 18 players but probably have 14-15 show up for each game. More playing time for everyone and I am pretty sure that they can figured out to spread the cost so that players are only paying for one annual fee.

Solar and the Texans have it figured out and it will provide more opportunity for all of their players. And there are plenty of top level players out there willing to move from an independent team to one of the Ecnl clubs so its not like its hard to find girls willing to move to these teams.

It's not necessarily a negative thing.  However, it doesn't have the intended effect of keeping quality players in LHGCL D1.  Those players are going to find their way to ECNL one way or another, and the best are going to play ECNL exclusively.

It also DOES give the ECNL clubs an added advantage, as they are no longer "penalized" for the choice of taking their top roster to ECNL.  If they haven't done the groundwork to develop (or acquire   ) multiple quality teams in an age group (i.e. D'Feeters, FC Dallas, or Solar in the '01's), there's not necessarily a penalty for that now.  More players will end up flowing from the non-ECNL clubs to the ECNL clubs, because they will have more total roster spots to offer to play in either ECNL or LHGCL D1.

Is that a bad thing overall for player development in NTX? Maybe, maybe not.

Is it the reality of what will happen? Pretty sure it is.

Pinnochio wrote:This conversation is comical. Why is it assumed that keeping a bye is such a negative thing. The club keeps the bye that it rightfully earned and adds some new players to the 10-11 that stick around from last year. The Ecnl team adds some new players and the LH team adds some new players. Both teams roster 18 players but probably have 14-15 show up for each game. More playing time for everyone and I am pretty sure that they can figured out to spread the cost so that players are only paying for one annual fee.

Solar and the Texans have it figured out and it will provide more opportunity for all of their players. And there are plenty of top level players out there willing to move from an independent team to one of the Ecnl clubs so its not like its hard to find girls willing to move to these teams.

No one implied it is difficult to find girls to pay for a spot on a d1 team...LOL. The issue is what happens to the league if/when those 10-11 players DONT stick around in LH because they're mainly focused on ECNL. Does d1 end up more watered down than it would've been had ECNL teams just left as in years past?

Do the newly formed B teams create a more competitive environment than Hilton, Kicks Gold, Sting East etc. which is where new players aspiring to d1 likely would've gone to try and win spots on intact teams?

Nothing in the current rules says anything about 10-11 or n+1, nor how it would be enforced. It just says "majority", but even that is left open for interpretation.

Worse case scenario for stability and competitiveness of d1 is if LH decides whoever wants to keep their bye keeps it, no enforceable restrictions, and clubs roster whatever girls they scrounge up between now and July 1 that aren't good enough to roster ECNL. You still have the same mass exodus of top talent from LH to ECNL, but now that next level is filled up with newly formed teams spawned from mass tryouts, instead of intact teams that have worked their way up for years.

There has to be a reason LH created the rule forfeiting byes for ECNL teams in the first place. And I don't think it has much to do with flow from non ECNL clubs to ECNL clubs....it's flow from coaches who developed their teams, to coaches who are given d1 roster spots to offer for contracts.

So, I was a year late in worrying about the possibility that the ecnl teams would figure out a way to do this. We discussed this ad nauseum last year when the 00s were "losing" the ecnl teams from LH. I was assured repeatedly that teams couldn't and wouldn't hold those spots...and they didn't. I couldn't understand them how clubs would let a team of payers...I mean players go and allow d3 to be filled w new teams.

Guess $ from 5 teams was a lot to pass up...

I don't know the 01 situation well, but here is what I would look for, some independents or some d2,3 type teams from other clubs finding the club byes w the clubs that need to fill their byes and shifting cash over and clubs backfilling to move teams in to the vacated lower spots.

Why wouldn't clubs "incentivize" the move to join our club...at a higher level, and why wouldn't teams decide to make the jump.

My sources tell me this "incentivization" scenario is about to play out in the 00s though not due to an ecnl situation.

dadof3 wrote:So, I was a year late in worrying about the possibility that the ecnl teams would figure out a way to do this. We discussed this ad nauseum last year when the 00s were "losing" the ecnl teams from LH. I was assured repeatedly that teams couldn't and wouldn't hold those spots...and they didn't. I couldn't understand them how clubs would let a team of payers...I mean players go and allow d3 to be filled w new teams.

Guess $ from 5 teams was a lot to pass up...

I don't know the 01 situation well, but here is what I would look for, some independents or some d2,3 type teams from other clubs finding the club byes w the clubs that need to fill their byes and shifting cash over and clubs backfilling to move teams in to the vacated lower spots.

Why wouldn't clubs "incentivize" the move to join our club...at a higher level, and why wouldn't teams decide to make the jump.

My sources tell me this "incentivization" scenario is about to play out in the 00s though not due to an ecnl situation.

Details please!

All these teams keeping their D1 byes isn't going to happen people................once the ECNL dust settles they're going to find they don't have the majority of their preECNL D1 team left to build around then the coaches and managers will realize what a pain the a$$ it will be to coordinate dual-rostering, player pass, blah blah blah..................and they'll just throw in the towel. if they pull it off they will simply be money hungry coaches that are losing their teams to ECNL and don't want to lose their income. So they'll take anyone that shows up on July 1 and it will be watered down versions of their former selves. And to players on those team.....................I say get ready for a very frustrating year.

I've read through this post a few times and there are a lot of good comments, suggestions and potential outcomes that folks have identified.

All are good...not doubt!

However, at the end of the day, aren't there basically the same number of players out there that won't be on ECNL teams.  That being said, it makes sense for a team to try to keep their D1 bye and have a strong pool of players (4-5) in D1 to potentially roster on the ECNL team.

There are a lot of great 01 players in North Texas that can play at a high D1 level or push the ECNL players for a roster spot (this was shown in State Cup...especially bye the Sting teams).

You will see quite a few D2 and D3 players coming out for these teams D1 spots (I can assure you) and those teams will then need to recruit for replacements at that level.

Can we all agree that D3 feeds D2 and D1, D2 feeds D1 and D1 feeds ECNL.

Just my thoughts.....let the barrage begin.

BP

You are probably right, but you can be guaranteed the ECNL clubs will try to do what it takes to keep the bye.

Does anyone know when the league will inform everyone (not one off conversations) of how they intend to address this big bowl of spaghetti and the implications for all involved?

Some may be in the planning stages for next year! What a novel concept to give everyone that has emotional ties, money involved a clear direction!

PrimeTime wrote:Does anyone know when the league will inform everyone (not one off conversations) of how they intend to address this big bowl of spaghetti and the implications for all involved?  

Some may be in the planning stages for next year!  What a novel concept to give everyone that has emotional ties, money involved a clear direction!      

Wishful thinking! They don't care!

So...theoretically, if the BYE situation plays out "some" players could be playing in ECNL, Premier & LH?

Good luck and god speed! Hope they have hired a full time event planning coordinator along with an injury specialist and financial planner.

I guess the same could be said for any of the others pursuing this path. But hey, they only have two leagues to worry about along with tourneys, practice schedules, etc.

Suzzy Q...remember that time when you were 14 and you played in bazillion games, practiced non-stop from sun up to sun down, obtained Executive Platinum for all the flights you took and the 100k in mileage we put on my truck. Yeah...those were the good old days!

Sounds like Academy soccer!! Lol

ItsMeAgain wrote:All these teams keeping their D1 byes isn't going to happen people................once the ECNL dust settles they're going to find they don't have the majority of their preECNL D1 team left to build around then the coaches and managers will realize what a pain the a$$ it will be to coordinate dual-rostering, player pass, blah blah blah..................and they'll just throw in the towel. if they pull it off they will simply be money hungry coaches that are losing their teams to ECNL and don't want to lose their income. So they'll take anyone that shows up on July 1 and it will be watered down versions of their former selves. And to players on those team.....................I say get ready for a very frustrating year.

I Love your response...   This is all so stressful.  I hate this time of the year and since this is the first year of ECNL, it's even crazier right now.  I have a 97 that plays ECNL and the transition back then was not this crazy.

[quote="PrimeTime"]So...theoretically, if the BYE situation plays out "some" players could be playing in ECNL, Premier & LH?  

Good luck and god speed!  Hope they have hired a full time event planning coordinator along with an injury specialist and financial planner.  

I guess the same could be said for any of the others pursuing this path.  But hey, they only have two leagues to worry about along with tourneys, practice schedules, etc.  

Suzzy Q...remember that time when you were 14 and you played in bazillion games, practiced non-stop from sun up to sun down, obtained Executive Platinum for all the flights you took and the 100k in mileage we put on my truck.  Yeah...those were the good old days!  [/quote]


No, because of the three concussions I got I can't remember that part of my youth.  Because of the broken leg I now run funny.  But those were great times !!!!  I almost got that partial scholarship to Saskatoon Eastern State College of the Pines

This scenario does not apply to the CORE players that will representing their team ENCL team as those players probably won't even see the LH field (perception of playing down a level, fear of injury, time, etc).

Past year...parents on PRE-ECNL teams, Suzy Q should be playing more than so and so. Coach says she's in his plans for ECNL.

Present...we need Suzy Q to "DUAL ROSTER" which will be good for her from a development standpoint. She'll get more playing time in LH games AND be on the short list to help our ECNL team.

Future...say September when the pool practices have finally be split into two.

Hey, what are you doing this weekend? Could apply to parent or player.

Um...I don't know. We might have to travel to Austin, OK, Houston, etc, or stay in town to play in a league game. We won't know until after practice later on this week as to which team we will be on this weekend. Man this week to week uncertainty is a beating!

Rinse, repeat for the next week / month and so on and so on.

Curious to see how this whole what sounds like a great idea today (buzz word again...DUAL ROSTER!) turns into the nightmare of tomorrow.

Surely 30 players / parents, the coaches and the club can avoid any issues, that on the surface, looks prime to unfold. This includes but not limited to play time with the ECNL team (we traveled all the way to Houston, but Suzy Q only saw 5 mins of the field), perceptions about what team Suzy should be on. Coaches juggling both sides of the fence. And so on...

But you said Suzy Q would be dual rostered! Be careful what you wish for!!!