Re: ECNL tryouts

by dadof3 05/06/14, 01:02 pm

Sweeper wrote:Thanks Gophers. I figured you had it all mapped out and likely have run statistical analysis on the most likely scenarios. I find it ironic that the 01s would be the first age group for this to happen to. Maybe the 01s are as deep as some have been proclaiming, so it made sense for this to happen this year. Drama drama drama.

I was afraid this was going to happen last year with the 00s. Everyone assured me that the ECNL clubs had NO interest in keeping the spots in LH. They didn't.

It made no sense to me then that they would walk away from D1 teams that they could backfill easily from lower ranks on the promise of "ECNL club" and "possible dual rostering" and the like...

Though my dd is on a big club team, I can certainly see how frustrating it is for independents and smaller clubs with the CPP and now this idea. The big club model makes sense if it is builds in a "minor league" system to stock its top roster, but is easily abused by sending ECNL players down to get "touches" and thus avoid relegation and seal what is essentially an inferior team (without guest players) into the top divisions.

I can see a day where a "None of the Above" alliance could develop across several independents (if coaches wanted to unite in this regard) to CPP their own players to battle back...of course, it would take some agreement not to backstab each other on the way to a united goal...

Hmm when does the new season of LHs Game of Thrones start??

by Sweeper 05/06/14, 01:05 pm

Big Poppy wrote:
Sweeper wrote:Thanks Gophers. I figured you had it all mapped out and likely have run statistical analysis on the most likely scenarios. I find it ironic that the 01s would be the first age group for this to happen to. Maybe the 01s are as deep as some have been proclaiming, so it made sense for this to happen this year. Drama drama drama.

Gophers is a "data" guy.....he truly knows his stuff!

He just programs Watson. Don't let it go to his head.

by Sweeper 05/06/14, 01:19 pm

dadof3 wrote:Though my dd is on a big club team, I can certainly see how frustrating it is for independents and smaller clubs with the CPP and now this idea. The big club model makes sense if it is builds in a "minor league" system to stock its top roster, but is easily abused by sending ECNL players down to get "touches" and thus avoid relegation and seal what is essentially an inferior team (without guest players) into the top divisions.

The big club model will certainly be more attractive to some parents with this development, but I think there is a bit of be careful what you wish for too. I would think that dual rostering and the possible parental pressure to play in more games or move from D1 to ECNL could result in more injuries, less fun and more burnout for the kids. On the other hand, there will be some kids who might be able to thrive and improve and get ECNL exposure that they would not otherwise get. So, I think there are advantages and disadvantages.

Good luck to everyone on their decisions this year. The crazy season always stinks and this year it seems to stink a bit more than usual.

by jamesscores 06/06/14, 08:47 am

tako wrote:
jamesscores wrote:Some great thoughts on ECNL overall and the recruiting aspects of how all of this will shake out. The other aspect of all of this that I find very interesting is the effect it has already proven to have over many coaches. My DD has a close friend on FCD Grubb and it sounds like he's moved away from many of the top players that got him where he is because he wanted bigger players for ECNL. Any truth to this rumor? I also find it interesting to hear about the coaches from smaller clubs under great amounts of pressure to win, add new players and compete against the ECNL clubs to keep their top players. ECNL chatter started early and some crumbled fast and other came on strong. For Spirit, I think 4-3-3 may be right. That team won 10 games this past year but 8 of those wins were from last Fall. Did they have a different roster in the Spring? If my DD were there I would be keeping my ears open for other opportunities. I can confidently say that having a near perfect Fall and dreadful Spring (barring injury) is all coaching. Word is that their coach did not handle the pressure well and completely changed his approach, put endless amounts of pressure on the players and was a different person. A parent told me that several have bailed out or are looking at other teams and the new players coming out are no upgrade. It might be a short visit to DI. Kicks Gold on the other hand is in a great position. I'm hearing that Jaun has bunches of 01's visiting but only 1 spot available on Kicks top team. Why wouldn't you want to play for Gold? Not sure where they practice but I'd drive 45 minutes to be part of Kicks Nation.

Stirring the pot a little are ya? Are you saying losing 2 games in the Spring is Dreadful? A near perfect Fall season is hard to repeat in the Spring, D2 had a lot of parity and it showed. Spirit earned a spot into D1 based on the results of the season. Not sure why you're taking a shot at them, their coach, and players coming out? Maybe you spoke with a parent of a dd that was cut? Maybe the stud from your dd's team left to join Spirit? Coach Willis has loads of integrity and the girls love playing for him, your pot shots speak volumes of yours.

No pot here. Very Happy

I just find many of the comments I'm hearing from parents very interesting. Many times parents are unreliable sure but they also get it right much of the time as well. Sorry if I offended I was just opening up discussion about the chatter and my thoughts.

by Soccer Talker 06/06/14, 10:19 am

jamesscores wrote:
tako wrote:
jamesscores wrote:Some great thoughts on ECNL overall and the recruiting aspects of how all of this will shake out. The other aspect of all of this that I find very interesting is the effect it has already proven to have over many coaches. My DD has a close friend on FCD Grubb and it sounds like he's moved away from many of the top players that got him where he is because he wanted bigger players for ECNL. Any truth to this rumor? I also find it interesting to hear about the coaches from smaller clubs under great amounts of pressure to win, add new players and compete against the ECNL clubs to keep their top players. ECNL chatter started early and some crumbled fast and other came on strong. For Spirit, I think 4-3-3 may be right. That team won 10 games this past year but 8 of those wins were from last Fall. Did they have a different roster in the Spring? If my DD were there I would be keeping my ears open for other opportunities. I can confidently say that having a near perfect Fall and dreadful Spring (barring injury) is all coaching. Word is that their coach did not handle the pressure well and completely changed his approach, put endless amounts of pressure on the players and was a different person. A parent told me that several have bailed out or are looking at other teams and the new players coming out are no upgrade. It might be a short visit to DI. Kicks Gold on the other hand is in a great position. I'm hearing that Jaun has bunches of 01's visiting but only 1 spot available on Kicks top team. Why wouldn't you want to play for Gold? Not sure where they practice but I'd drive 45 minutes to be part of Kicks Nation.

Stirring the pot a little are ya? Are you saying losing 2 games in the Spring is Dreadful? A near perfect Fall season is hard to repeat in the Spring, D2 had a lot of parity and it showed. Spirit earned a spot into D1 based on the results of the season. Not sure why you're taking a shot at them, their coach, and players coming out? Maybe you spoke with a parent of a dd that was cut? Maybe the stud from your dd's team left to join Spirit? Coach Willis has loads of integrity and the girls love playing for him, your pot shots speak volumes of yours.

No pot here. I just find many of the comments I'm hearing from parents very interesting. Many times parents are unreliable sure but they also get it right much of the time as well. Sorry if I offended I was just opening up discussion about the chatter and my thoughts.

I'm not aware of what is happening with FCD or many others but I know that TSN is probably fine. Quen W. has made changes he felt he needed to make and they lost a few to ECNL but he's a quality coach and will have his team ready as usual.

by Guest 06/06/14, 11:21 am

SoccerTalker wrote:
jamesscores wrote:
tako wrote:
jamesscores wrote:Some great thoughts on ECNL overall and the recruiting aspects of how all of this will shake out. The other aspect of all of this that I find very interesting is the effect it has already proven to have over many coaches. My DD has a close friend on FCD Grubb and it sounds like he's moved away from many of the top players that got him where he is because he wanted bigger players for ECNL. Any truth to this rumor? I also find it interesting to hear about the coaches from smaller clubs under great amounts of pressure to win, add new players and compete against the ECNL clubs to keep their top players. ECNL chatter started early and some crumbled fast and other came on strong. For Spirit, I think 4-3-3 may be right. That team won 10 games this past year but 8 of those wins were from last Fall. Did they have a different roster in the Spring? If my DD were there I would be keeping my ears open for other opportunities. I can confidently say that having a near perfect Fall and dreadful Spring (barring injury) is all coaching. Word is that their coach did not handle the pressure well and completely changed his approach, put endless amounts of pressure on the players and was a different person. A parent told me that several have bailed out or are looking at other teams and the new players coming out are no upgrade. It might be a short visit to DI. Kicks Gold on the other hand is in a great position. I'm hearing that Jaun has bunches of 01's visiting but only 1 spot available on Kicks top team. Why wouldn't you want to play for Gold? Not sure where they practice but I'd drive 45 minutes to be part of Kicks Nation.

Stirring the pot a little are ya? Are you saying losing 2 games in the Spring is Dreadful? A near perfect Fall season is hard to repeat in the Spring, D2 had a lot of parity and it showed. Spirit earned a spot into D1 based on the results of the season. Not sure why you're taking a shot at them, their coach, and players coming out? Maybe you spoke with a parent of a dd that was cut? Maybe the stud from your dd's team left to join Spirit? Coach Willis has loads of integrity and the girls love playing for him, your pot shots speak volumes of yours.

No pot here. I just find many of the comments I'm hearing from parents very interesting. Many times parents are unreliable sure but they also get it right much of the time as well. Sorry if I offended I was just opening up discussion about the chatter and my thoughts.

I'm not aware of what is happening with FCD or many others but I know that TSN is probably fine. Quen W. has made changes he felt he needed to make and they lost a few to ECNL but he's a quality coach and will have his team ready as usual.

by OrangeBlooded 06/06/14, 02:53 pm

bwgophers wrote:
SoccerTalker wrote:
jamesscores wrote:
tako wrote:
jamesscores wrote:Some great thoughts on ECNL overall and the recruiting aspects of how all of this will shake out. The other aspect of all of this that I find very interesting is the effect it has already proven to have over many coaches. My DD has a close friend on FCD Grubb and it sounds like he's moved away from many of the top players that got him where he is because he wanted bigger players for ECNL. Any truth to this rumor? I also find it interesting to hear about the coaches from smaller clubs under great amounts of pressure to win, add new players and compete against the ECNL clubs to keep their top players. ECNL chatter started early and some crumbled fast and other came on strong. For Spirit, I think 4-3-3 may be right. That team won 10 games this past year but 8 of those wins were from last Fall. Did they have a different roster in the Spring? If my DD were there I would be keeping my ears open for other opportunities. I can confidently say that having a near perfect Fall and dreadful Spring (barring injury) is all coaching. Word is that their coach did not handle the pressure well and completely changed his approach, put endless amounts of pressure on the players and was a different person. A parent told me that several have bailed out or are looking at other teams and the new players coming out are no upgrade. It might be a short visit to DI. Kicks Gold on the other hand is in a great position. I'm hearing that Jaun has bunches of 01's visiting but only 1 spot available on Kicks top team. Why wouldn't you want to play for Gold? Not sure where they practice but I'd drive 45 minutes to be part of Kicks Nation.

Stirring the pot a little are ya? Are you saying losing 2 games in the Spring is Dreadful? A near perfect Fall season is hard to repeat in the Spring, D2 had a lot of parity and it showed. Spirit earned a spot into D1 based on the results of the season. Not sure why you're taking a shot at them, their coach, and players coming out? Maybe you spoke with a parent of a dd that was cut? Maybe the stud from your dd's team left to join Spirit? Coach Willis has loads of integrity and the girls love playing for him, your pot shots speak volumes of yours.

No pot here. I just find many of the comments I'm hearing from parents very interesting. Many times parents are unreliable sure but they also get it right much of the time as well. Sorry if I offended I was just opening up discussion about the chatter and my thoughts.

I'm not aware of what is happening with FCD or many others but I know that TSN is probably fine. Quen W. has made changes he felt he needed to make and they lost a few to ECNL but he's a quality coach and will have his team ready as usual.

Oh man. That's funny!
Laughing

by Guest 06/06/14, 04:02 pm

bwgophers wrote:
jae wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
As you say, this is assuming that Solar/FCD/Texans retain their byes and Sting/Feet forfeit their byes, and all other teams from last year make and return with their current club:

D1:

Kicks SC
Solar Red
FC Dallas Premier
Dallas Texans
Andromeda
Dallas Texans FTW
Dallas Texans White
Tx. Spirit North
Sting Guzman

Just curious... Did you intend to list Sting Guzman last for any specific reason? The order in which other teams are listed seems to make sense.

It's the order in which the byes are awarded. Texans White and Tx. Spirit North are assured of D1 byes before Sting Guzman is. I did the same thing in D2 with Sting North Blue and Tx. Lightning Black being listed ahead of FWFC and Solar White.

FYI... Latest information that I have, sounds like things are solidifying along these lines with Solar/FCD/Texans holding on to their byes and and D'Feeters/Sting Flanny forfeiting theirs. So unless Solar/FCD/Texans falls through at the last minute, or Andro/DTFW/DT White/Tx. Spirit, somehow don't make, it looks like the above list is what D1 will look like next year.

by Pinnochio 06/06/14, 05:38 pm

bwgophers wrote:
As you say, this is assuming that Solar/FCD/Texans retain their byes and Sting/Feet forfeit their byes, and all other teams from last year make and return with their current club:

D1:

Kicks SC
Solar Red
FC Dallas Premier
Dallas Texans
Andromeda
Dallas Texans FTW
Dallas Texans White
Tx. Spirit North
Sting Guzman

FYI... Latest information that I have, sounds like things are solidifying along these lines with Solar/FCD/Texans holding on to their byes and and D'Feeters/Sting Flanny forfeiting theirs. So unless Solar/FCD/Texans falls through at the last minute, or Andro/DTFW/DT White/Tx. Spirit, somehow don't make, it looks like the above list is what D1 will look like next year.

Inspite of what Kicks nation believes I have a hard time thinking that lineup of teams compares favorably with the lineup of Ecnl teams next year.

by Soccer Madman 06/06/14, 09:08 pm

Pinnochio wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
As you say, this is assuming that Solar/FCD/Texans retain their byes and Sting/Feet forfeit their byes, and all other teams from last year make and return with their current club:

D1:

Kicks SC
Solar Red
FC Dallas Premier
Dallas Texans
Andromeda
Dallas Texans FTW
Dallas Texans White
Tx. Spirit North
Sting Guzman

FYI... Latest information that I have, sounds like things are solidifying along these lines with Solar/FCD/Texans holding on to their byes and and D'Feeters/Sting Flanny forfeiting theirs. So unless Solar/FCD/Texans falls through at the last minute, or Andro/DTFW/DT White/Tx. Spirit, somehow don't make, it looks like the above list is what D1 will look like next year.

Inspite of what Kicks nation believes I have a hard time thinking that lineup of teams compares favorably with the lineup of Ecnl teams next year.

Haters going to hate. Twisted Evil

by jae 06/06/14, 09:54 pm

Pinnochio wrote:
Inspite of what Kicks nation believes I have a hard time thinking that lineup of teams compares favorably with the lineup of Ecnl teams next year.

There is no question that next year's LH D1 will not be as strong as this year's LH D1. It is also obvious that the top 4 TX/OK ECNL teams will be stronger than top 4 LH teams not named Kicks (Solar, FCD, Texans, and Sting will make sure that will be the case). However, we cannot assume that the bottom 6 TX/OK ECNL teams will be stronger than the bottom 5 LH teams. If every TX/OK ECNL team were to play every LH D1 team next year, I think the overall W/L/T record will be pretty close.

by pass-it 07/06/14, 03:38 pm

No one can dispute talent has been flowing to ECNL teams in NTX, same is occuring in OK and STX. Will continue in future years for players wishing to play at chosen level.

Result is a major impact to D1 LH as it begins to look more like a second division. It is what it is.

For players and parents I dont think it matters much. If your player has the desire/ability to play at the certain level they have that choice and can compete accordingly. The talent/player pool is fairly set and is re-aligning to the new reality.

Its the clubs and those affiliated that have most to gain/lose.

by flippinA 07/06/14, 09:59 pm

from what i figure about 100 girls will fill ECNL rosters across NTX. That is 100 less girls in LH and most of those girls are coming from D1 teams.

by tschlurker 08/06/14, 09:01 pm

It is easy to say that if every ECNL team played every LH D1 team the records would be even, because those theoretical games will never happen. What will happen is 90 plus kids out of the LH D1 player pool will play in ECNL, and LH D1 will begin its inevitable slide towards B league status. The talent gap between ECNL and non-ECNL is likely narrowest at u14, but it will get bigger every year.

by jae 09/06/14, 06:56 am

tschlurker wrote:It is easy to say that if every ECNL team played every LH D1 team the records would be even, because those theoretical games will never happen. What will happen is 90 plus kids out of the LH D1 player pool will play in ECNL, and LH D1 will begin its inevitable slide towards B league status. The talent gap between ECNL and non-ECNL is likely narrowest at u14, but it will get bigger every year.

Agreed that "the talent gap between ECNL and non-ECNL is likely narrowest at u14" since Kicks players, arguably some of the most talented '01s, will not play ECNL, and since about half of the 90 plus kids getting out of LH D1 will still play LH games (to keep D1 byes, many will be dual-rostered and have to play LH games because otherwise they will not have enough players to play LH games). Also agree that the talent gap will increase in subsequent years since more Kicks players may get lured into playing ECNL, and since ECNL club will not have to dual-roster as many players.

Another important consequence to Kicks players staying in LH and ECNL clubs keeping their D1 byes is that next year's top 5 LH D1 teams are likely be stronger than bottom 5 TX/OK ECNL teams.

by Guest 09/06/14, 08:23 am

How many years has it been now that you guys have been saying Kicks will be losing players....

by tschlurker 09/06/14, 11:06 am

Not sure if dual rostering will work in a way that has any ECNL studs playing LH. Bottom of the ECNL bench and non-gameday roster kids yes, studs no. The 5 '00 ECNL teams rostered 126 players. Do you think many of the 55 starters played any LH games? Once a parent has their kid starting on an ECNL team, and drinks the KoolAid, and sees the college coaches at events, etc., do you think they care if their kid ever plays LH again? "A" team mentality drives the ECNL bandwagon, and once it starts LH is a step backwards.

by dadof3 09/06/14, 11:09 am

tschlurker wrote:Not sure if dual rostering will work in a way that has a lot of ECNL studs playing LH. Bottom of the ECNL bench and non-gameday roster yes, studs no. The 5 '00 ECNL teams rostered 126 players. Do you think many of the 55 starters played any LH games? Once a parent has their kid starting on an ECNL team, and drinks the KoolAid, and sees the college coaches at events, etc., do you think they care if their kid ever plays LH again? "A" team mentality drives the ECNL bandwagon, and once it starts LH is a step backwards.

Actually if you look at the CPP situation, there were quite a few playing to keep teams from relegation...oh, did I open that can of worms??

by tschlurker 09/06/14, 11:10 am

CPP is indeed another can of worms, but this thread has all manner of worms wriggling, so the more the merrier...

by bananakick 18/06/14, 02:48 pm

So is the consensus still that Solar/FCD/Texans will keep their byes and that Sting/D'Feeters will not?

by ItsMeAgain 18/06/14, 03:11 pm

bananakick wrote:So is the consensus still that Solar/FCD/Texans will keep their byes and that Sting/D'Feeters will not?

looks like it

by ghostwhowalks 18/06/14, 09:09 pm

We blame the teams for hanging on to the byes for the money$ but a part of the blame is also with the parents who are ready to sign with the club and dual roster... placing their DD's in two leagues and exposing them to over use and injuries...

by ghostwhowalks 19/06/14, 09:54 am

Solar U14 ECNL Schedule

Solar U14 LHGCL Schedule

If the same team played in two leagues last year, 18 games in LHGCL and 18 + 3 games in ECNL with travel... 4 dates that have games on the same date and in different cities... We should be seeing some forfeiture games going forward in LHGCL assuming that ECNL takes precedence for the teams...

by ItsMeAgain 19/06/14, 10:18 am

ghostwhowalks wrote:Solar U14 ECNL Schedule

Solar U14 LHGCL Schedule

If the same team played in two leagues last year, 18 games in LHGCL and 18 + 3 games in ECNL with travel... 4 dates that have games on the same date and in different cities... We should be seeing some forfeiture games going forward in LHGCL assuming that ECNL takes precedence for the teams...

Doubt it. The coaches and clubs have figured out a way to make it work. You're assuming it's one team involved with both leagues......................that's not the case. They'll max both rosters and dual roster the number needed to keep their byes. You're also assuming that all the players on the lake highlands team roster from prior year are dual rostered, which isn't necessarily the case. Some players could have been cut from the ECNL tryouts and told they wanted to be retained with their D1 team to keep the bye (which is what DFeeters tried to do and failed miserably from what I understand). And some of the dual rostered players will likely play exclusively D1 and never see the light of day with ECNL. That plus use of the player pass rule to borrow subs from other sister teams, they won't have a problem getting enough players on the field.

Make no mistake though, the clubs wouldn't do this if they ran a risk of forfeited games. Fines and damaged club reputation for trying to skirt the system......................wouldn't look good to the leagues or the paying parental public (say that 5 times fast Very Happy

).

by ghostwhowalks 19/06/14, 10:30 am

And our north Texas weather can play havoc on those rescheduled games... Let's see how this experiment is carried out...

by ItsMeAgain 19/06/14, 10:32 am

ghostwhowalks wrote:And our north Texas weather can play havoc on those rescheduled games... Let's see how this experiment is carried out...

not sure what that has to do with it all Question

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