Re: player pass should be revoked

by soccersounder 30/09/14, 04:29 pm

KnKsDad wrote:Can anyone cite examples of CPP's being used to play up in division?

As a Ref, I saw it several times last year. I have saw it once this year, so far. When a 99 Meja team CPP'd a 00 player to help out because of injuries

by soccersounder 30/09/14, 04:39 pm

slrsoccer wrote:At the risk of getting slotted by you lot, I am going to go out on a limb here. These are one persons opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that kids are a member of a "team" but do not lose sight of the fact that the "team" is a member of a "club."

There are really two choices here, play for the small club that has 1 or 2 teams in an age group or play for the larger club that may have many.

I for one am in favor of a more YourApeeIn type club structure to which the big clubs could follow. If they have 3 or 4 teams in an age group, let them move around, up or down. If the 16th player on the roster on the D1 team didn't get to play in his game then why shouldn't he be able to go down and play in the D2 game? They need the game time just as much as any other kid in the club pool. If a player on the D3 team has been playing great then move him up to the D2 team for a week. That doesn't mean they have to see the field, but it is a reward for putting in the effort and playing well.

I would encourage the player movement up and down with a caveat - there has to be a limit set on the number of games a kid can play in a given period of time. I think you could do this by the month instead of the week and say a kid can play a max of 6 games per month in the league. This would force the club to think about player movement and actually have a strategy regarding player movement.

If you are part of a big club you should want your 25-30 best players getting plenty of game time no matter what the level. If you are players 31-50 then you have something to work towards in training in order to get more time on the pitch.

My current "Best Post Ever"... Some serious soccer talk on this one.. Not some "don't cheat my dds 12 year old team.. Crying or Very sad

And then turn around and wonder why NTX does not have more players on the National Team..

by Coach&Ref 30/09/14, 04:42 pm

soccersounder wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:Can anyone cite examples of CPP's being used to play up in division?

As a Ref, I saw it several times last year. I have saw it once this year, so far. When a 99 Meja team CPP'd a 00 player to help out because of injuries

I believe you, Sounder, but I don't really know any kids on any team, since they all become blurs after awhile; so many players to keep track of! Very Happy

What I have seen are teams in big clubs with only a couple or no subs at all. This was even in the 100 degree heat. Sad

by Guest 30/09/14, 06:14 pm

soccersounder wrote:
slrsoccer wrote:At the risk of getting slotted by you lot, I am going to go out on a limb here. These are one persons opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that kids are a member of a "team" but do not lose sight of the fact that the "team" is a member of a "club."

There are really two choices here, play for the small club that has 1 or 2 teams in an age group or play for the larger club that may have many.

I for one am in favor of a more YourApeeIn type club structure to which the big clubs could follow. If they have 3 or 4 teams in an age group, let them move around, up or down. If the 16th player on the roster on the D1 team didn't get to play in his game then why shouldn't he be able to go down and play in the D2 game? They need the game time just as much as any other kid in the club pool. If a player on the D3 team has been playing great then move him up to the D2 team for a week. That doesn't mean they have to see the field, but it is a reward for putting in the effort and playing well.

I would encourage the player movement up and down with a caveat - there has to be a limit set on the number of games a kid can play in a given period of time. I think you could do this by the month instead of the week and say a kid can play a max of 6 games per month in the league. This would force the club to think about player movement and actually have a strategy regarding player movement.

If you are part of a big club you should want your 25-30 best players getting plenty of game time no matter what the level. If you are players 31-50 then you have something to work towards in training in order to get more time on the pitch.

My current "Best Post Ever"... Some serious soccer talk on this one.. Not some "don't cheat my dds 12 year old team.. And then turn around and wonder why NTX does not have more players on the National Team..

ok great! no problem. Refund my money and lets move forward with your ideas...

by SolarPower00 30/09/14, 07:04 pm

Sorry but your money has already been used to buy extra kits for the Player Pass players with conflicting numbers
and did I mention that ref fees went up...and the team may travel to Vegas again this year.

by Guest 30/09/14, 08:05 pm

KnKsDad wrote:Can anyone cite examples of CPP's being used to play up in division?

bwgophers wrote:
PrimeTime wrote:
I guess I still am looking for examples of the CPP being used in the other direction, whereby a player plays up vs their normal respective division (i.e. D2 to D1, D1 to ECNL and actually plays not just there to round out the 30 player roster).

3 players from my DD's U14 D1 team (2 Field, 1 GK) CPP'd with a U15 D1/PL team in U15 Premier League games this fall. The 2 field players played 50% or more in both games played that weekend, 1 win and 1 loss.

by lovesoccer 30/09/14, 09:47 pm

Coach&Ref wrote:
soccersounder wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:Can anyone cite examples of CPP's being used to play up in division?

As a Ref, I saw it several times last year. I have saw it once this year, so far. When a 99 Meja team CPP'd a 00 player to help out because of injuries

I believe you, Sounder, but I don't really know any kids on any team, since they all become blurs after awhile; so many players to keep track of!

What I have seen are teams in big clubs with only a couple or no subs at all. This was even in the 100 degree heat.

If my memory serves me right didn't '02 FC Premier use the CPP several times last year when they lost (asked and received club releases) several players at some point during the year. If I remember correctly they CPP from their '03 team as FCP had no other '02 team in LHGCL.

by intrinsic 30/09/14, 10:03 pm

lovesoccer wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
soccersounder wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:Can anyone cite examples of CPP's being used to play up in division?

As a Ref, I saw it several times last year. I have saw it once this year, so far. When a 99 Meja team CPP'd a 00 player to help out because of injuries

I believe you, Sounder, but I don't really know any kids on any team, since they all become blurs after awhile; so many players to keep track of!

What I have seen are teams in big clubs with only a couple or no subs at all. This was even in the 100 degree heat.

If my memory serves me right didn't '02 FC Premier use the CPP several times last year when they lost (asked and received club releases) several players at some point during the year. If I remember correctly they CPP from their '03 team as FCP had no other '02 team in LHGCL.

A team can use CP players from PPL or APL also- so it is not necessary to have another LHGCL team in order to use CP players.

by jae 30/09/14, 10:14 pm

I know these are special cases but...

Solar, Texans, and FCD LH U14 D1 teams must CP players from lower/younger teams whenever there are ECNL games on the same day. Otherwise, they are not likely to have 11 rostered players.

by Coach&Ref 30/09/14, 11:13 pm

lovesoccer wrote:
Coach&Ref wrote:
soccersounder wrote:
KnKsDad wrote:Can anyone cite examples of CPP's being used to play up in division?

As a Ref, I saw it several times last year. I have saw it once this year, so far. When a 99 Meja team CPP'd a 00 player to help out because of injuries

I believe you, Sounder, but I don't really know any kids on any team, since they all become blurs after awhile; so many players to keep track of!

What I have seen are teams in big clubs with only a couple or no subs at all. This was even in the 100 degree heat.

If my memory serves me right didn't '02 FC Premier use the CPP several times last year when they lost (asked and received club releases) several players at some point during the year. If I remember correctly they CPP from their '03 team as FCP had no other '02 team in LHGCL.

If you are asking me, I have no idea. I don't ref the younger age groups.

by soccerjack 01/10/14, 09:31 am

If you want to see the reality of whats wrong with CPP, look at the 04g thread. Apparently the 7th place team beat the first place team who was undefeated and worked hard to get where they were at. The whole thing is BS if it's used like this just once. Whats the point of having different divisions? How do you teach a kid to bust their butt to earn first place and then have a lower team beat them because they plugged some players in to get a win.

by yo#10 01/10/14, 11:21 am

In 02 group last season Solar Gio used two players from Solar red . It did not help they lost. This year sting higg helped sting brown with two players, they won. Currently several FCd 02 players are also playing up with d1 01 team and are playing with them. Two higgy players are playing up with ECNL group, and are helping them.

by futbollove 01/10/14, 12:14 pm

soccerjack wrote:If you want to see the reality of whats wrong with CPP, look at the 04g thread. Apparently the 7th place team beat the first place team who was undefeated and worked hard to get where they were at. The whole thing is BS if it's used like this just once. Whats the point of having different divisions? How do you teach a kid to bust their butt to earn first place and then have a lower team beat them because they plugged some players in to get a win.

Which 04 thread?

by soccerchicken 01/10/14, 12:15 pm

https://www.txsoccer.net/t22779p25-lake-highlands-04-diii-week-5#217028

by futbollove 01/10/14, 12:17 pm

soccersounder wrote:
slrsoccer wrote:At the risk of getting slotted by you lot, I am going to go out on a limb here. These are one persons opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that kids are a member of a "team" but do not lose sight of the fact that the "team" is a member of a "club."

There are really two choices here, play for the small club that has 1 or 2 teams in an age group or play for the larger club that may have many.

I for one am in favor of a more YourApeeIn type club structure to which the big clubs could follow. If they have 3 or 4 teams in an age group, let them move around, up or down. If the 16th player on the roster on the D1 team didn't get to play in his game then why shouldn't he be able to go down and play in the D2 game? They need the game time just as much as any other kid in the club pool. If a player on the D3 team has been playing great then move him up to the D2 team for a week. That doesn't mean they have to see the field, but it is a reward for putting in the effort and playing well.

I would encourage the player movement up and down with a caveat - there has to be a limit set on the number of games a kid can play in a given period of time. I think you could do this by the month instead of the week and say a kid can play a max of 6 games per month in the league. This would force the club to think about player movement and actually have a strategy regarding player movement.

If you are part of a big club you should want your 25-30 best players getting plenty of game time no matter what the level. If you are players 31-50 then you have something to work towards in training in order to get more time on the pitch.

My current "Best Post Ever"... Some serious soccer talk on this one.. Not some "don't cheat my dds 12 year old team.. And then turn around and wonder why NTX does not have more players on the National Team..

To both of these post

by Guest 01/10/14, 12:24 pm

futbollove wrote:
soccersounder wrote:
slrsoccer wrote:At the risk of getting slotted by you lot, I am going to go out on a limb here. These are one persons opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that kids are a member of a "team" but do not lose sight of the fact that the "team" is a member of a "club."

There are really two choices here, play for the small club that has 1 or 2 teams in an age group or play for the larger club that may have many.

I for one am in favor of a more YourApeeIn type club structure to which the big clubs could follow. If they have 3 or 4 teams in an age group, let them move around, up or down. If the 16th player on the roster on the D1 team didn't get to play in his game then why shouldn't he be able to go down and play in the D2 game? They need the game time just as much as any other kid in the club pool. If a player on the D3 team has been playing great then move him up to the D2 team for a week. That doesn't mean they have to see the field, but it is a reward for putting in the effort and playing well.

I would encourage the player movement up and down with a caveat - there has to be a limit set on the number of games a kid can play in a given period of time. I think you could do this by the month instead of the week and say a kid can play a max of 6 games per month in the league. This would force the club to think about player movement and actually have a strategy regarding player movement.

If you are part of a big club you should want your 25-30 best players getting plenty of game time no matter what the level. If you are players 31-50 then you have something to work towards in training in order to get more time on the pitch.

My current "Best Post Ever"... Some serious soccer talk on this one.. Not some "don't cheat my dds 12 year old team.. And then turn around and wonder why NTX does not have more players on the National Team..

To both of these post

gee what a surprise....

by banana kick 05/10/14, 10:12 am

CPP is about one thing -- money -- and suggesting it's about anything else, especially player development, is either naive or disingenuous. Can it be used to develop players? Sure. Is that why it's there? Absolutely not.

by Keeper_Dad_01 05/10/14, 11:45 am

The CPP should be declared a week ahead of time in order to give the other team an opportunity to match the move with players from a higher level team to balance out the receiving teams noticeable attempt to win a game against a team they probably would not beat had they played with the original roster. If the team being put in a disadvantage is an Independent team, then the entire CPP rule should not be allowed to be used as the Independent team has ZERO recourse to match the move. I have an idea, all Independent teams can use each others players a CPP players because we are all on Club Independent! Can you now hear the Big Club parents screaming Foul!!! Also, CPP rule should have a restriction to allow a team to use it once in a season, so they better really need it. Also, a player being passed should only be allowed to be used once for the LHGCL season. If a team really needs players then there are many more players on the other club teams rosters other than the 2 or 3 that somehow are always the players chosen to guest play on other teams.

by 2028 06/10/14, 01:04 pm

Keeper_Dad_01 wrote:The CPP should be declared a week ahead of time in order to give the other team an opportunity to match the move with players from a higher level team to balance out the receiving teams noticeable attempt to win a game against a team they probably would not beat had they played with the original roster. If the team being put in a disadvantage is an Independent team, then the entire CPP rule should not be allowed to be used as the Independent team has ZERO recourse to match the move. I have an idea, all Independent teams can use each others players a CPP players because we are all on Club Independent! Can you now hear the Big Club parents screaming Foul!!! Also, CPP rule should have a restriction to allow a team to use it once in a season, so they better really need it. Also, a player being passed should only be allowed to be used once for the LHGCL season. If a team really needs players then there are many more players on the other club teams rosters other than the 2 or 3 that somehow are always the players chosen to guest play on other teams.

I Like it!

by onthemove 06/10/14, 01:33 pm

In South Texas soccer a CPP can only be used if a player is playing in the same division, or up a division. I think this is a pretty fair way to handle it. Still not fair to the independent clubs, but I guess that's your choice on if you have your child play for a large or small club. Also I believe all rosters are frozen 48 hours before the game. So if you are going to use a CPP, you have to plan ahead.

by Soccer-Fan 06/10/14, 01:48 pm

We've experienced over the past couple weekends...opponents that had CPP players from their D2 and D1 teams playing with their D3 team (2 ea - respectively). Note...each team had btwn 4-6 subs on their bench during the games...so this wasn't "due to injuries or availability". I just look at teams that due this as...cowards...afraid to rely on the girls they recruited/signed/developed to achieve positive results. And how do the parents of the D3 rostered girls feel as their kids sit...while 'the ringers' play in their place

by fatherofoneplayer 06/10/14, 04:14 pm

banana kick wrote:CPP is about one thing -- money -- and suggesting it's about anything else, especially player development, is either naive or disingenuous. Can it be used to develop players? Sure. Is that why it's there? Absolutely not.

Actually, one could argue that youth sports, i.e. NTX soccer, is about one thing -- money--- and suggesting it's about anything else especially player development, is either naïve or disingenuous.

by fatherofoneplayer 06/10/14, 04:17 pm

Keeper_Dad_01 wrote:The CPP should be declared a week ahead of time in order to give the other team an opportunity to match the move with players from a higher level team to balance out the receiving teams noticeable attempt to win a game against a team they probably would not beat had they played with the original roster. If the team being put in a disadvantage is an Independent team, then the entire CPP rule should not be allowed to be used as the Independent team has ZERO recourse to match the move. I have an idea, all Independent teams can use each others players a CPP players because we are all on Club Independent! Can you now hear the Big Club parents screaming Foul!!! Also, CPP rule should have a restriction to allow a team to use it once in a season, so they better really need it. Also, a player being passed should only be allowed to be used once for the LHGCL season. If a team really needs players then there are many more players on the other club teams rosters other than the 2 or 3 that somehow are always the players chosen to guest play on other teams.

Good stuff and excellent points. One question though.....since the indy teams are at a disadvantage with CPP, are they also at a disadvantage with inter-club transfers? I don't hear much chatter about that.

by haterinho 06/10/14, 08:25 pm

Why does CPP exist if vast majority of parents hate the rule? All over the country?

My guess is its all down to money and a result of the success of US Club Soccer (and DA on boys side). Pure, rank speculation on my part, but only thing makes sense to me is state associations (typically affiliated with USYS), feel the heat from US Club Soccer and are making their rules cater to what the mega clubs have wanted all along.

ECNL was born because the soccer guy capitalists were tired of the lifer administrator teacher types having so much control of their business (again...speculative). Mega clubs have long wanted to change roster rules and playing formats to help them leverage their player pools and further expand in their respective markets. Instead of perpetual skirmishing with the behemoth USYS oak tree, along comes us club offering a way for Wall Street to bypass the SEC once and for all.

US Club now gives the capitalists a platform to manage players completely independently of USYS, and has plans to reach beyond elite players and eventually capture the masses of big payers too. The old oak now has to cater to the 1%ers or risk getting run out of town. Repeat...capture the masses of big payers, not the masses. Neutral

Meanwhile parents are standing by seemingly oblivious, acting like a bunch of frogs in a slow boil. CPP now...hate to see what's next.

by banana kick 06/10/14, 09:48 pm

fatherofoneplayer wrote:
banana kick wrote:CPP is about one thing -- money -- and suggesting it's about anything else, especially player development, is either naive or disingenuous. Can it be used to develop players? Sure. Is that why it's there? Absolutely not.

Actually, one could argue that youth sports, i.e. NTX soccer, is about one thing -- money--- and suggesting it's about anything else especially player development, is either naïve or disingenuous.

I don't disagree.

by DT03GWhiteNPL 21/10/14, 03:34 pm

In my humble, unsolicited, opinion - CPP has no impact on these kids that are U11-U13 (can't comment on U14 and above)... it impacts the parents but really has no impact on the kids accept that they get to play more soccer or at a different level or with different kids... at this age it matters more to the parents and since they make a big deal out of it, usually in front of their DD, pissing and moaning about the fact that they lost because the other team used CPP, then darling Susy gets all bent outta shape cause "Mommy and Daddy are mad because 'said team' used CPP to bring a D1 player or two - mommy or daddy said we would have won otherwise". This age group normally doesn't know or care about CPP accept what WE, the parents, tell them about it. They wanna play soccer. It's the parents feeling of entitlement or their "money being wasted" because darling Susy's team just got beat by a team they thought they were gonna definitely beat - again, that's the parents likely hyping the game to the kiddos - "you got an easy one this weekend cause you're playing #7 out of a possible 10 teams" (I think that's the example someone used on here for the 04s). Guess who wouldn't care if it was never mentioned? The kids, they play soccer cause they enjoy the game, the parents piss and moan cause it's their dollar and by golly, if their DD's team can't or won't utilize a rule that was put in place by the league, then it can't be fair. However, everyone seems to push to be in LH knowing the CPP is there and likely WILL be used. So I don't get it - go to another league, play rec, you want in so bad and willing to pay the money until you're the recipient of a loss created by the very rules you pay for. Talk about a double standard. My DD plays on a team that has used the CPP and has had the CPP used against it - I like it - I like that it keeps everyone honest. Nothing is guaranteed and it shouldn't be at this age group. However, as many have mentioned, it comes down to the almighty dollar, not just from a parents perspective, but also from a coach and club perspective. You don't win, players move on taking their money with them. So goes the world of NTX girls youth soccer. Piss and moan all you want, but when CPP levels the playing field and presses top teams to play better against unsuspecting teams, I don't see anything wrong with that - everyone learns a lesson then.

On a side note, I read through the posts that someone posted above for the 04s... seems TX Spirit Red tied the #1 team this past weekend without using CPP according to a parent from the opposing team (team that was tied for first this past weekend). So a few weeks back they beat the #1 team by utilizing CPP - begs to question whether the CPP was the actual culprit of their win or not - maybe it would have ended in a tie instead? Just playing devils advocate here. And no, my DD has no affiliation with either team or club accept that we all have friends that are associated with some team somehow. Sounds to me like some folks on that forum were using CPP as an excuse for a loss instead of what it was actually used for which was to level the playing field as it does in almost all uses. Haven't seen CPP used to sway a blowout loss to a blowout win by anyone in the 02's or 03's has anyone else?

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