Re: player pass should be revoked

by futbollove 25/09/14, 01:39 pm

Wired wrote:Player pass completely destroys the idea of a team. Soccer is a team sport not club sport. If you like player pass, why dont we just have the clubs play not the teams. The best 11 from a club play each week.

I like this idea. Club ranks players from week to week, and fill in spots on the corresponding teams. Everyone else plays rec. Now we've got "Select" soccer again.

by Guest 25/09/14, 01:40 pm

futbollove wrote:Why is it always the "losing" parents that complain about CPP? I would like to hear from the poor "supplanted player" every now and then.

um because they are children? duh?

by Wired 25/09/14, 01:52 pm

Why does everyone assume its a parent who has been beaten. I let my dd play down in a tournament 1 time, never again. She has enough risk getting injured anyway.

by futbollove 25/09/14, 01:59 pm

silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:Why is it always the "losing" parents that complain about CPP? I would like to hear from the poor "supplanted player's" parent every now and then.

um because they are children? duh?

Comprende?

by futbollove 25/09/14, 02:06 pm

Wired wrote:Why does everyone assume its a parent who has been beaten. I let my dd play down in a tournament 1 time, never again. She has enough risk getting injured anyway.

But did you get on here and complain about how bad CPP is after the fact?

by Wired 25/09/14, 02:14 pm

Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.

by fatherofoneplayer 25/09/14, 02:24 pm

silentparent wrote:3. Unfair? We as parents can address this with coach prior to signing - I have

silly, once you sign the contract you have absolutely no leverage with a coach, he can say tough and all you have left is you holding your schlong.....

Sorry, but if you do not have a relationship with the coach and are in a position/situation where you are stuck, that is YOUR fault. I don't need leverage with a coach. For me, my kid and the coach it is a relationship that is built prior to signing. I have never been in a situation where I am left holding my schlong, as you put it.

by Guest 25/09/14, 02:25 pm

Wired wrote:The idea that player pass is ok because "the better player should play" is crazy. A team has a roster of x amount of players, you usually have a starting line up on that team. The starting girls are usually the one's that earned it that week. That gives the rest of girls on that team something to work for. When you bring in players who have not competed and they play ahead of those players who have, what does that tell them about there hard work. It tells them they have busted it for nothing.

player pass should be revoked - Page 2 There12

by futbollove 25/09/14, 02:30 pm

Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.

Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

by Guest 25/09/14, 02:32 pm

futbollove wrote:
Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.
Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

perhaps the club should ban ccp, and concentrate on producing high quality soccer players AND kids and not winning at all costs..

by Guest 25/09/14, 02:33 pm

futbollove wrote:
Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.
Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

this is a children's league, not an adult league. The actions of the club should be tilted to the best welfare of children...

by Coach&Ref 25/09/14, 02:41 pm

silentparent wrote:3. Unfair? We as parents can address this with coach prior to signing - I have

silly, once you sign the contract you have absolutely no leverage with a coach, he can say tough and all you have left is you holding your schlong.....

This is but one reason why I have always proposed the idea that contracts should not be mandatory for one year. I think people should be allowed to sign for six months only if they so choose. I know that people can get releases now during the winter window, but it is only to rec unless there was something egregious going on. With the amount of people who are in such dire angst piling up releases every year, I think some things might change. This might force clubs to take pause and reassess their promises made and direction of the team.

by Wired 25/09/14, 02:44 pm

Yall are right, screw being on a team, lets just play pick up games every weekend. Who wants loyalty from a team or coach anyway.

by Guest 25/09/14, 02:58 pm

Man, I can't wait until next year when my DD finally gets to High School and all of the politics, lack of coach loyalty, kids getting shuffled back and forth between teams, crappy refs, and unnecessary physical play goes away! Whew! Can't get here soon enough!

by futbollove 25/09/14, 03:03 pm

silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.
Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

perhaps the club should ban ccp, and concentrate on producing high quality soccer players AND kids and not winning at all costs..

Here's another way of looking at it. Perhaps CPP is the clubs' way of producing higher quality soccer players by giving those players chances to participate in varying levels of competition.
Not everyone who plays club soccer is going to be a high quality player, even if they did pay to play on the team.

by Guest 25/09/14, 03:16 pm

futbollove wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.
Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

perhaps the club should ban ccp, and concentrate on producing high quality soccer players AND kids and not winning at all costs..
Here's another way of looking at it. Perhaps CPP is the clubs' way of producing higher quality soccer players by giving those players chances to participate in varying levels of competition.
Not everyone who plays club soccer is going to be a high quality player, even if they did pay to play on the team.

you will believe anything obviously....

by soccerisfun 25/09/14, 03:23 pm

futbollove wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.
Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

perhaps the club should ban ccp, and concentrate on producing high quality soccer players AND kids and not winning at all costs..
Here's another way of looking at it. Perhaps CPP is the clubs' way of producing higher quality soccer players by giving those players chances to participate in varying levels of competition.
Not everyone who plays club soccer is going to be a high quality player, even if they did pay to play on the team.

quite honestly, the funniest post today! Laughing

by fatherofoneplayer 25/09/14, 03:34 pm

bwgophers wrote:Man, I can't wait until next year when my DD finally gets to High School and all of the politics, lack of coach loyalty, kids getting shuffled back and forth between teams, crappy refs, and unnecessary physical play goes away! Whew! Can't get here soon enough!

Sorry BWG, but it just isn't that easy. Politics really just begin(coach, AD, booster club, etc), coach loyalty depends on far up the arse you put yourself, kids still get shuffled between teams, refs are considerably less quality and as far as physical play - just call it rugby. Now, the club side of it does get better. Mainly because us parents are armed with 9+ years of club soccer with all that it entails and we get just a tad bit more mature, not much but some.

by Guest 25/09/14, 04:11 pm

fatherofoneplayer wrote:
bwgophers wrote:Man, I can't wait until next year when my DD finally gets to High School and all of the politics, lack of coach loyalty, kids getting shuffled back and forth between teams, crappy refs, and unnecessary physical play goes away! Whew! Can't get here soon enough!

Sorry BWG, but it just isn't that easy. Politics really just begin(coach, AD, booster club, etc), coach loyalty depends on far up the arse you put yourself, kids still get shuffled between teams, refs are considerably less quality and as far as physical play - just call it rugby. Now, the club side of it does get better. Mainly because us parents are armed with 9+ years of club soccer with all that it entails and we get just a tad bit more mature, not much but some.

Ummm... I was being sarcastic... guess I need some work on that...

by futbollove 25/09/14, 05:35 pm

silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.
Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

perhaps the club should ban ccp, and concentrate on producing high quality soccer players AND kids and not winning at all costs..
Here's another way of looking at it. Perhaps CPP is the clubs' way of producing higher quality soccer players by giving those players chances to participate in varying levels of competition.
Not everyone who plays club soccer is going to be a high quality player, even if they did pay to play on the team.

you will believe anything obviously....

I believe in SELECT means SELECT, and you believe in Select means entitlement obviously....
Just a difference of opinion

by Guest 25/09/14, 05:48 pm

futbollove wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
silentparent wrote:
futbollove wrote:
Wired wrote:Nope. Ive always said it kills the idea of team chemistry. Like someone else said you signed with a team and coach. Stick it out or ask for a release and the coaches should do the same.
Actually you sign with the Club, not the coach. The coach can be replaced by the Club at any time. Contract also states that playing time is not guaranteed. Perhaps Clubs should also add CPP language into the contract.

perhaps the club should ban ccp, and concentrate on producing high quality soccer players AND kids and not winning at all costs..
Here's another way of looking at it. Perhaps CPP is the clubs' way of producing higher quality soccer players by giving those players chances to participate in varying levels of competition.
Not everyone who plays club soccer is going to be a high quality player, even if they did pay to play on the team.

you will believe anything obviously....
I believe in SELECT means SELECT, and you believe in Select means entitlement obviously....

lol, entitlement? as in playing the team that the coach selected? The players rostered to that team? as in not sandbagging players to get victories? you need a reality check, this is a kids league, not the pros...

by haterinho 25/09/14, 05:53 pm

bwgophers wrote:
fatherofoneplayer wrote:
bwgophers wrote:Man, I can't wait until next year when my DD finally gets to High School and all of the politics, lack of coach loyalty, kids getting shuffled back and forth between teams, crappy refs, and unnecessary physical play goes away! Whew! Can't get here soon enough!

Sorry BWG, but it just isn't that easy. Politics really just begin(coach, AD, booster club, etc), coach loyalty depends on far up the arse you put yourself, kids still get shuffled between teams, refs are considerably less quality and as far as physical play - just call it rugby. Now, the club side of it does get better. Mainly because us parents are armed with 9+ years of club soccer with all that it entails and we get just a tad bit more mature, not much but some.

Ummm... I was being sarcastic... guess I need some work on that...

You need work on being sarcastic as much as I need work on hatering....wait - is that a word?

CPP has had a few positive effects...it allowed big clubs to seamlessly keep their byes and still field decent LH teams first year of ECNL. I suppose some have used it as intended in the (intentionally vague?) "spirit of the rule"...but enough have gone "buck wild" to conclude CPP sucks as currently implemented.

Put a cap on # of times a player can CPP in one season....CPP up unlimited, only allow CPP down to 1 lower level...and give parents no questions asked full release clause on any team that uses CPP more than n # of times in a year.

CPP in tournaments is to be expected, but rampant CPP in league play? Not good...might as well get rid of season long leagues and make all competitions club vs club, open roster mini tournaments.

by Lefty 25/09/14, 06:35 pm

Is the spirit of the rule really being abused by multiple clubs, or is it really a case of 1 or 2 clubs abusing it?

Personally, I'm only aware of 1 club regularly violating the spirit of the law to any significant degree?

by PrimeTime 25/09/14, 07:00 pm

"CPP has had a few positive effects...it allowed big clubs to seamlessly keep their byes and still field decent LH teams first year of ECNL."

How is this a positive??? The abuse of CPP is basically a way for these clubs to pad their LH and Premier league rankings / standings via the use of 5-6 ENCL players in every non-ENCL game where possible.

Case in point, FCD vs DTFW recently. 0-2 @ half. 3-2 final. Any guess who scored the 3 goals for FCD?

Only true results being determined at this point right now is in ECNL. The other league (LH and Premier) results are a crap shoot depending on who is rostered on any given Sat / Sun to help keep these big clubs placated. I guess it also allows Kicks to have a more appropriate opponent if certain teams decide to roster up. Not a bad thing, but at the expense of many others involved IMO.

Nothing more than kicking the can down the road until ENCL players don't need or want to help the great cause of their clubs and the eventual D1 kids only want that level of competition (more play time and less splinters). Eventually everyone will end up where they should in terms of appropriate level (ECNL, D1, D2, etc) of competition and we won't have this watered down mess.

I guess I still am looking for examples of the CPP being used in the other direction, whereby a player plays up vs their normal respective division (i.e. D2 to D1, D1 to ECNL and actually plays not just there to round out the 30 player roster).

At this point, I still do not see the benefit other than assisting for injury related purposes (goalie being the best example that comes to mind).

by Guest 25/09/14, 07:03 pm

I think the boys rule is far superior to what we have. Read it yourself. I'd have no problem with this rule.

CLUB PLAYER PASS RULE
Purpose: The Club Player Pass Rule is designed to maximize the development of the player by
allowing players temporary basis.
to play on a team from the same Club at an older age level on a
Requirement: The Club Player Pass Rule to be used for the Boys Classic League must follow the current rules, guidelines (for example: roster sizes), and the following criteria:
1. Club Player Pass may only play in a higher division within their age group. For example: A D2 player may play for a D1 team. D3 Players may play for either D2 or D1 teams. Players may not transfer to higher ranking teams within their own division.
2. Club Player Pass may play at an older level, but, only at the same or higher level. For example:
U12 D1 player can play U13 (or older) D 1 and cannot play in U13 D2 or D3. U12 D2 player can play U13 D2 or U13 D1 and may not play U13 D3.
U12 D3 player may play in any division of an older age bracket.
3. Club Player Pass must only play one game per day (this includes his primary team). For example:
U12 D3 player on a Saturday, plays with U13 D3 team, and on Sunday can play on his original U12 D3 team. Players can only play one game per day!
4. A team may receive a maximum of 3 club player passes per game.
5. Club Player Pass is not allowed to participate in the league qualifying games or league qualifying tournaments. This includes Challenge games, U11 Qualifying Tournament, etc.
6. After a Classic league team has completed 75% of their planned full year’s league games (the combined total of planned games for the Fall & Spring season), no Club Player Passes will be allowed.
7. A player, is eligible for a club pass into any age group he is birthdate/year eligible for regardless of what age group that player’s rostered team participates in, providing other restrictions are met. For example: A player who is classified as a U15 and is rostered to a U16 D2 team, may use a club pass to a U15 D1 team. In this situation he would satisfy age requirements as well as avoid breaking “playing down” restrictions currently in place
ADDENDUM 4 – PAGE 1 OF 2 January 2014

by Guest 25/09/14, 08:36 pm

PrimeTime wrote:
I guess I still am looking for examples of the CPP being used in the other direction, whereby a player plays up vs their normal respective division (i.e. D2 to D1, D1 to ECNL and actually plays not just there to round out the 30 player roster).

3 players from my DD's U14 D1 team (2 Field, 1 GK) CPP'd with a U15 D1/PL team in U15 Premier League games this fall. The 2 field players played 50% or more in both games played that weekend, 1 win and 1 loss.

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