New Divisions?

So will the new D1 and D2 look like this -

All 9 existing D1 teams plus Sting Angell, Sting Gray, FWFC and D'Feeters?

D2 will be Dallas Kicks Gold, Texans Red North, Solar White, LP Rush, Lightening, Sting Central plus top 7 teams from D3?

Cosmos, Andro Red and Texans Red all re-qualifying?

donovansucks wrote:So will the new D1 and D2 look like this -

All 9 existing D1 teams plus Sting Angell, Sting Gray, FWFC and D'Feeters?

D2 will be Dallas Kicks Gold, Texans Red North, Solar White, LP Rush, Lightening, Sting Central plus top 7 teams from D3?  

Cosmos, Andro Red and Texans Red all re-qualifying?

I think you are correct on everything except D'Feeters being in D1. D1 was supposed to go to 8 teams at U15, so only the 1st place team in D2 would have earned a promotion. D'Feeters could only have gotten to 32 pts. max.

However, there's enough ambiguity in the statement on the website that I'm far less than 100% sure on any of this.

BW, I agree. Lots of ambiguity in the statement. Best of luck to all the teams, no matter how this shakes out.

I'm happy to see some resolution to this soggy mess of a season.

Looks like lots of thought went into the LHGCL decision. The girls will get to play again. Teams that were on the cusp of promotion, will get promoted. Teams that were headed for relegation, will get relegated. A few D3 teams will need to re-qualify . . . I honestly don't think this decision changed their fate.

Looking forward to the 15/16 season.

So if D1 is to have 12 teams, what are thoughts regarding # of games scheduled for 2015/2016? Seems like the LHGCL language reads each team playing all others only once. That's 11 games, far too few.

allhatnocattle wrote:So if D1 is to have 12 teams, what are thoughts regarding # of games scheduled for 2015/2016?  Seems like the LHGCL language reads each team playing all others only once.  That's 11 games, far too few.

You were only going to get 14 games in D1 next year anyways.  Add in HS soccer next year, and it's not like the girls are going to be hurting for games.  Heck, it may even reduce the number of injuries.  You can make up the 3 game difference in a single weekend with a tournament, or just schedule some extra scrimmages/friendlies.

Of course, it would be nice to see LH adjust the league fees by an appropriate amount for the lower # of games, but I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

So what becomes of the qualifiers for Premiere League, the top 4 teams as of today go? I actually commend LH for ending this season and using some resemblance of rationale thought to do so.

soccerman75 wrote:So what becomes of the qualifiers for Premiere League, the top 4 teams as of today go?  I actually commend LH for ending this season and using some resemblance of rational thought to do so.

That still remains to be seen.

The explanation of what will happen across age groups is relatively vague.

donovansucks wrote:So will the new D1 and D2 look like this -

All 9 existing D1 teams plus Sting Angell, Sting Gray, FWFC and D'Feeters?

D2 will be Dallas Kicks Gold, Texans Red North, Solar White, LP Rush, Lightening, Sting Central plus top 7 teams from D3?  

Cosmos, Andro Red and Texans Red all re-qualifying?

Wouldn't it be 15 teams in D1 and 15 in D2?  so D1 would be (?):

1. DALLAS KICKS
   
2. DALLAS TEXANS
   
3. SOLAR CHELSEA 01G RED
   
4. TEXAS SPIRIT North
   
5. FC DALLAS YOUTH 0
   
6. DALLAS TEXANS
   
7. DALLAS TEXANS
   
8. STING 01G DONOVAN (FKA STING 0
   
9. ANDROMEDA FC01G - PL
   
10. STING NORTH 01G ANGELL
    
11. STING EAST 01G GRAY
    
12. FORT WORTH FC 01G BLACK
    
13. DALLAS KICKS Gold
    
14. D'FEETERS
    
15. DALLAS TEXANS
    

Tiki-taka wrote:

donovansucks wrote:So will the new D1 and D2 look like this -

All 9 existing D1 teams plus Sting Angell, Sting Gray, FWFC and D'Feeters?

D2 will be Dallas Kicks Gold, Texans Red North, Solar White, LP Rush, Lightening, Sting Central plus top 7 teams from D3?  

Cosmos, Andro Red and Texans Red all re-qualifying?

Wouldn't it be 15 teams in D1 and 15 in D2?  so D1 would be (?):

1. DALLAS KICKS
   
2. DALLAS TEXANS
   
3. SOLAR CHELSEA 01G RED
   
4. TEXAS SPIRIT North
   
5. FC DALLAS YOUTH 0
   
6. DALLAS TEXANS
   
7. DALLAS TEXANS
   
8. STING 01G DONOVAN (FKA STING 0
   
9. ANDROMEDA FC01G - PL
   
10. STING NORTH 01G ANGELL
    
11. STING EAST 01G GRAY
    
12. FORT WORTH FC 01G BLACK
    
13. DALLAS KICKS Gold
    
14. D'FEETERS
    
15. DALLAS TEXANS
    

What part of the statement on the LHGCL web site are you basing that off of?

Returning and incoming U13s through U17 will shift into two larger divisions, Division I and DIvision II. (The size of the divisions will vary based on age group)

No where is the number defined. Yet.

01_YOUTH_DAD wrote:Returning and incoming U13s through U17 will shift into two larger divisions, Division I and DIvision II. (The size of the divisions will vary based on age group)

No where is the number defined. Yet.

My point exactly. No where does it say how large each division will be, or that they will specifically try to place equal # of teams in D1 & D2. (...and if they were going to do that, D1 & D2 would be 14 teams each going into U15).

The only indication given in the statement is that any team that was still in a position to have a mathematical chance to earn promotion from D2 into D1, would be promoted. No where does it explicitly say that they will promote additional teams that did not have a mathematical chance at promotion, in order to balance out the size of the divisions (although there is the somewhat ambiguous statement in the FAQ's section of the post regarding adding 1-2 teams to the division because they will only be playing each other once, but I still actually read this as only applying to the teams that had a mathematical chance at promotion).

Again, as worded, there is much that remains open to interpretation, however, I don't see an interpretation where Tiki-Taka comes up with his 15 team D1 scenario.

...of course, as I said to one of our other parents at practice yesterday, at the end of the day, the LHGCL Board has the final say in anything, and they can pretty much modify things on a case-by-case basis if they wanted to, so absolutely anything is possible, and nothing is ever 100% set in stone.

I guess like most people I am scratching my head wondering how LH will use this new set up to improve the league. Right now, I don't see this offering a benefit beyond ending the season. I don't see the benefit of grouping wildly disparate teams in a huge cluster. The best thing about LH has been the ability to maintain competitive levels of play and reward success with higher levels of play. A game between the # 13 and 30 teams doesn't offer much too either team or other division competitors. My hope is that LH is able to work through this without degrading its product.

There really isn't much difference between LH D3 and Plano Div 1.

I would like to see more spot made available where appropriate.

Like for example - shouldn't a sub .500 team like ANDROMEDA FC
01G BLUE have to re-qualify?

Driver wrote:I guess like most people I am scratching my head wondering how LH will use this new set up to improve the league.  Right now, I don't see this offering a benefit beyond ending the season.  I don't see the benefit of grouping wildly disparate teams in a huge cluster.  The best thing about LH has been the ability to maintain competitive levels of play and reward success with higher levels of play.  A game between the # 13 and 30 teams doesn't offer much too either team or other division competitors.  My hope is that LH is able to work through this without degrading its product.

Agree with this post. One of the nice things about LH is the 3 divisions.

This new proposed solution provides a watered-down D1 and D2, and seems to loose it's appeal of promotion and relegation.

If this idea of 2 divisions becomes true, I believe there will be many complaints that it will be reverted back next year.

I believe the best solution is to keep everything status quo. End the season as is and it's tough luck for maybe 1 or 2 teams this year only. If any team belongs, do it in the qualifyer.

Keep it simple.

I believe there is potential for significant polarity in the new D2. However, I'd say you're selling teams like FCD Pratt and Jazz short in comparing them to PPL teams. Those teams appear to play good defense, a necessary trait for success in D2.

I'd guess there will be some of these teams in both divisions merging or not making, too.

allhatnocattle wrote:I believe there is potential for significant polarity in the new D2.  However, I'd say you're selling teams like FCD Pratt and Jazz short in comparing them to PPL teams.  Those teams appear to play good defense, a necessary trait for success in D2.

I'd guess there will be some of these teams in both divisions merging or not making, too.

Agree with your assessment on FCD Pratt and Jazz short teams. They have had a good year!

Most likely D1 was already going to be watered down at u15 and beyond.  The second round of ECNL talent gets sucked out, and attrition hits hard at the second and third tier teams once high school starts.

I kinda like LH putting teams in two big buckets...it allows more teams that may have developed beyond what their record shows to get their shot at the top.  Yes it lessens the influence of promotion / relegation, but I'd guess that is on its last legs anyway. You're already giving the clubs the freedom of CPP...why not toss them another bone and remove promotion / relegation?  Wouldn't surprise me if this is beginning of the end for promotion / relegation in LH.

I've been critical of LH decision making on quite a few issues lately (CPP / ECNL Bye retention / lack of communication and site updates, etc. etc.)...but hats off to them on this one.  They took a very difficult situation and very quickly came up with a savvy solution. It's hard to argue a better solution exists.

4-3-3 wrote:Most likely D1 was already going to be watered down at u15 and beyond.  The second round of ECNL talent gets sucked out, and attrition hits hard at the second and third tier teams once high school starts.

I kinda like LH putting teams in two big buckets...it allows more teams that may have developed beyond what their record shows to get their shot at the top.  Yes it lessens the influence of promotion / relegation, but I'd guess that is on its last legs anyway. You're already giving the clubs the freedom of CPP...why not toss them another bone and remove promotion / relegation?  Wouldn't surprise me if this is beginning of the end for promotion / relegation in LH.

I've been critical of LH decision making on quite a few issues lately (CPP / ECNL Bye retention / lack of communication and site updates, etc. etc.)...but hats off to them on this one.  They took a very difficult situation and very quickly came up with a savvy solution. It's hard to argue a better solution exists.

I don't know that it's savvy, nor difficult. There's not a solution that will make everybody happy.

I find it funny that vacation was mentioned as an excuse in their decisions.

Threw tradition out the window with a knee-jerk reaction is my opinion.

4-3-3 wrote:Most likely D1 was already going to be watered down at u15 and beyond.  The second round of ECNL talent gets sucked out, and attrition hits hard at the second and third tier teams once high school starts.

I kinda like LH putting teams in two big buckets...it allows more teams that may have developed beyond what their record shows to get their shot at the top.  Yes it lessens the influence of promotion / relegation, but I'd guess that is on its last legs anyway. You're already giving the clubs the freedom of CPP...why not toss them another bone and remove promotion / relegation?  Wouldn't surprise me if this is beginning of the end for promotion / relegation in LH.

I've been critical of LH decision making on quite a few issues lately (CPP / ECNL Bye retention / lack of communication and site updates, etc. etc.)...but hats off to them on this one.  They took a very difficult situation and very quickly came up with a savvy solution. It's hard to argue a better solution exists.

Are you sure of what this "savvy" solution is?  If so please share, along with how promotion/relegation will be impacted next year (as well as qualifying for this year).

At this point there are still some other solutions - and we can argue whether a week of beautiful weather and turf fields should be utilized.  But for whatever reason, LH didn't start using turf fields earlier - or pulled them after only a couple nights.  Answers I am sure we will never have - but we are in this position, in part, due to options not utilized earlier this month.

[quote="4-3-3"]
I kinda like LH putting teams in two big buckets...it allows more teams that may have developed beyond what their record shows to get their shot at the top.  quote]

In the words of Bill Parcell, "You are what your record says you are."  I don't know of too many teams that are truly better than what their record is against similar teams particularly over an 18 game sample.  If you take any of the D2 teams and play them against a series of Plano D1 teams, you might think they are world beaters.  However, it is the head to head competition against their peers that shows what they are.  Some teams are capable of huge performances against the top teams yet also rack up stupid losses.  Some teams always seem to win the games they are supposed to win, lose the ones they are expected to lose with the occasional surprise victory sneaking in.  Which is the better team?  I suggest the record tells you how the teams compare.  One team may have more upside and the other may have peaked.  But the record is what most people use to compare and plan for the future.  During June, I doubt may parents are looking to move their DD's to an under performing team.  Add the impact of ambitious parents who aren't willing to wait on the team to develop internally and shop their DD's to higher performing teams.

The bottom line is that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.  The cream rises to the top.  It is hard to hold a team together if you aren't improving.  And improvement is measured in the statistics.

SickofSilliness wrote:Are you sure of what this "savvy" solution is?  If so please share, along with how promotion/relegation will be impacted next year (as well as qualifying for this year).

At this point there are still some other solutions - and we can argue whether a week of beautiful weather and turf fields should be utilized.  But for whatever reason, LH didn't start using turf fields earlier - or pulled them after only a couple nights.  Answers I am sure we will never have - but we are in this position, in part, due to options not utilized earlier this month.

No - not sure. I thought it was savvy to come up with something that wouldn't aggrieve the teams that COULD be promoted or that COULD retain their bye.

Looks as if the only group with a beef are those wanting stronger competition in LH. I'm just saying that horse has already left the barn....comp would've been diluted at u15 and beyond whether we had historic rains or not.

As for promotion / relegation, don't care much about the temporary details...don't believe LH as currently constructed can hang on to it much longer anyway. IMO LH will eventually be a scrimmage league and DOCs will decide which teams play where. It will take us club soccer creating their own league, sucking in all the big $$$ clubs, and ousting those clubs' control over LH leadership, for it to ever get back to sustaining a true alternative product with something so radical as promotion / relegation.

LH came up with a way to get out of this season leaving just about everyone with no right to be pissed. Kudos to them on that.

4-3-3 wrote:

SickofSilliness wrote:Are you sure of what this "savvy" solution is?  If so please share, along with how promotion/relegation will be impacted next year (as well as qualifying for this year).

At this point there are still some other solutions - and we can argue whether a week of beautiful weather and turf fields should be utilized.  But for whatever reason, LH didn't start using turf fields earlier - or pulled them after only a couple nights.  Answers I am sure we will never have - but we are in this position, in part, due to options not utilized earlier this month.

No - not sure. I thought it was savvy to come up with something that wouldn't aggrieve the teams that COULD be promoted or that COULD retain their bye.

Looks as if the only group with a beef are those wanting stronger competition in LH. I'm just saying that horse has already left the barn....comp would've been diluted at u15 and beyond whether we had historic rains or not.

As for promotion / relegation, don't care much about the temporary details...don't believe LH as currently constructed can hang on to it much longer anyway. IMO LH will eventually be a scrimmage league and DOCs will decide which teams play where. It will take us club soccer creating their own league, sucking in all the big $$$ clubs, and ousting those clubs' control over LH leadership, for it to ever get back to sustaining a true alternative product with something so radical as promotion / relegation.

LH came up with a way to get out of this season leaving just about everyone with no right to be pissed. Kudos to them on that.

I mathematically earned promotion, why are the three teams under me being promoted as well?
1. They could have mathematically earned promotion as well.

This is the part I have a problem with - I have never seen promotions given based on what could have happened. The more likely scenario I believe should be the season ended today and these are the final stands. Relegation and Promotion will be based on these final records.

Just like a soccer game that weather interrupts before it's completed - the game stands.

Or why not just play the games?

Elimination was a virtual certainty for Ft Worth given remaining games and past performance. That being said, all three of the top teams that should move up to D1 should be competitive with the bottom 2/3 of D1 and could make it interesting for some of the others.
Any of the remaining D2 teams need to stay D2 or requalify - D1 would not be a friendly place for them.

Of course this is with the caveat that all things remain equal which cannot be assumed this time of year.

bwgophers wrote:

Tiki-taka wrote:

donovansucks wrote:So will the new D1 and D2 look like this -

All 9 existing D1 teams plus Sting Angell, Sting Gray, FWFC and D'Feeters?

D2 will be Dallas Kicks Gold, Texans Red North, Solar White, LP Rush, Lightening, Sting Central plus top 7 teams from D3?  

Cosmos, Andro Red and Texans Red all re-qualifying?

Wouldn't it be 15 teams in D1 and 15 in D2?  so D1 would be (?):

1. DALLAS KICKS
   
2. DALLAS TEXANS
   
3. SOLAR CHELSEA 01G RED
   
4. TEXAS SPIRIT North
   
5. FC DALLAS YOUTH 0
   
6. DALLAS TEXANS
   
7. DALLAS TEXANS
   
8. STING 01G DONOVAN (FKA STING 0
   
9. ANDROMEDA FC01G - PL
   
10. STING NORTH 01G ANGELL
    
11. STING EAST 01G GRAY
    
12. FORT WORTH FC 01G BLACK
    
13. DALLAS KICKS Gold
    
14. D'FEETERS
    
15. DALLAS TEXANS
    

What part of the statement on the LHGCL web site are you basing that off of?

The Q&A suggests that they will add 1 or 2 teams (that are no longer mathematically "alive" for promotion) to make the numbers work, so that the teams will play each other once. I think 15 in each Division is a pretty good guess. But I am just guessing also.