Re: Guess Players Again - Solar Nero - Club Pass

by ballhead 31/10/14, 10:42 am

FierceLightning wrote:
ballhead wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:
Packrabbit wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:
Packrabbit wrote:Bw- A lack of testimonials on this subject is not tangible evidence that the rule isn't being manipulated and doesn't adversely affect home team players. How the rule is currently being used is indefensible.

I'm not surprised a parent hasn't publicly highlighted that their kid was affected my this rule, and I'm not holding my breathe for the 1st one. Could you imagine the type of replies that story would receive? Injuries to the starters should be an opportunity for "bench" players to get extra playing time to step up, and prove themselves. What happened to just getting a chance?

I can definitively tell you some Sting Garrett players playing time was affected by their guest players.

Lastly, a good friend sent me the Boys CPP rule, which is very fair, precise and radically different from the girls version. Why the difference?

Forum Politeness Disclaimer 2.0:
Section I: The author of this post's above attempts at humor should be viewed and/or criticized for its entertainment value only. Hopefully, no one's feelings or facts were injured during the production of this post.
Section II: The author does not claim to speak intelligently or with authority about ANY posted topic. The author further acknowledges that any information presented is an opinion most likely based on incomplete observations and should not, in form or fashion, be treated as NEWS or FACTS of any type. All information should be questioned, ridiculed and/or discarded, as deemed appropiate by the individual reader.

So based on your disclaimer, we should just ignore your posts as "pi##ing in the wind'? You aren't serious and/or mindful about anything posted on here?
Fierce, if you are finding my disclaimer controversial and/or upsetting, I would suggest you ignore my posts altogether. It's not worth the high blood pressure.

Although I have deviated on this CPP ordeal, the disclaimer is a reminder (to myself and others) that this forum stuff is supposed to be fun, non-confrontational and one should make up their own darn mind.

Pack..I did not find your disclaimer controversial and/or upsetting. I found it to be enlightening about you.

As far as being a reminder, I don't think disparaging yourself with a disclaimer creates any fun for most readers. It just makes some think you aren't serious about any post you are writing altogether. It lends less credence to your posts. I happen to think you are trying to be helpful and positive, but your Disclaimer discredits anything you write.

So, in your opinion, most of us would read a post of Pack's and think it helpful and positive, until we get to the obvious attempt at humor in his "disclaimer" and then throw it all out?

You might not find it humorous, that's different for all of us, but it has nothing to do with the value of any of the posts. At least not in my opinion.

Understood. You see it that way. I don't. I think the disclaimer disparaging your opinions that you may post says a lot about those opinions or at least about how the poster sees it. I see it as a comedian mocking eveything. Who finds anything a comedian says worthwhile other than a good laugh? Is that what this forum is for, to have good laughs?

When I read many of these posts, I have trouble looking at them in any other way than to have good laughs. Any chance you're taking all of this a little TOO seriously?

by soccernovice04 31/10/14, 10:48 am

FierceLightning wrote:
ballhead wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:
Packrabbit wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:
Packrabbit wrote:Bw- A lack of testimonials on this subject is not tangible evidence that the rule isn't being manipulated and doesn't adversely affect home team players. How the rule is currently being used is indefensible.

I'm not surprised a parent hasn't publicly highlighted that their kid was affected my this rule, and I'm not holding my breathe for the 1st one. Could you imagine the type of replies that story would receive? Injuries to the starters should be an opportunity for "bench" players to get extra playing time to step up, and prove themselves. What happened to just getting a chance?

I can definitively tell you some Sting Garrett players playing time was affected by their guest players.

Lastly, a good friend sent me the Boys CPP rule, which is very fair, precise and radically different from the girls version. Why the difference?

Forum Politeness Disclaimer 2.0:
Section I: The author of this post's above attempts at humor should be viewed and/or criticized for its entertainment value only. Hopefully, no one's feelings or facts were injured during the production of this post.
Section II: The author does not claim to speak intelligently or with authority about ANY posted topic. The author further acknowledges that any information presented is an opinion most likely based on incomplete observations and should not, in form or fashion, be treated as NEWS or FACTS of any type. All information should be questioned, ridiculed and/or discarded, as deemed appropiate by the individual reader.

So based on your disclaimer, we should just ignore your posts as "pi##ing in the wind'? You aren't serious and/or mindful about anything posted on here?
Fierce, if you are finding my disclaimer controversial and/or upsetting, I would suggest you ignore my posts altogether. It's not worth the high blood pressure.

Although I have deviated on this CPP ordeal, the disclaimer is a reminder (to myself and others) that this forum stuff is supposed to be fun, non-confrontational and one should make up their own darn mind.

Pack..I did not find your disclaimer controversial and/or upsetting. I found it to be enlightening about you.

As far as being a reminder, I don't think disparaging yourself with a disclaimer creates any fun for most readers. It just makes some think you aren't serious about any post you are writing altogether. It lends less credence to your posts. I happen to think you are trying to be helpful and positive, but your Disclaimer discredits anything you write.

So, in your opinion, most of us would read a post of Pack's and think it helpful and positive, until we get to the obvious attempt at humor in his "disclaimer" and then throw it all out?

You might not find it humorous, that's different for all of us, but it has nothing to do with the value of any of the posts. At least not in my opinion.

Understood. You see it that way. I don't. I think the disclaimer disparaging your opinions that you may post says a lot about those opinions or at least about how the poster sees it. I see it as a comedian mocking eveything. Who finds anything a comedian says worthwhile other than a good laugh? Is that what this forum is for, to have good laughs?

I guess the reverse would be that all of us without a disparaging disclaimer on this forum are 100% credible? And yes, when I'm in that dark place and need a good laugh, I can always come to this forum for quick pick-me-up...umm, and of course in-depth analysis and commentary...

by Tiki-taka 31/10/14, 10:53 am

Man has this thread been HiJacked! I was looking for an all out Sparta versus Solar knockout drag out online sparring match, instead I get jackrabbit is not funny and anything he/she/it posts is garbage and should be dismissed because of his disclaimer. I already knew that!

C'Mon Man! get to the good stuff. I need some treats, it's Halloween for gosh sake!

by FierceLightning 31/10/14, 10:55 am

Cmon_Man wrote:

Your posts are also saying a lot about you. You must be a load of fun at team parties. Move on man- you are way too carried away. We are talking about 12 year old girls soccer not cancer...humor is OK.

Of course my posts say a lot about me. As does yours. So the fact that we are talking about 12 year old girls and discussing a topic that effects every one of them, you liken that to cancer? Do you liken this topic to be funny or is there some seriousness in discussing it intelligently in order to create some possible change or improvement? Humor is great, but it needs to be appropriate as well. Forums for you may be a comedic release, but for some we get enjoyment at actually discussing with peers in a focused manner. Why should that be a problem?

by FierceLightning 31/10/14, 10:58 am

ballhead wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:
ballhead wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:
Packrabbit wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:

Forum Politeness Disclaimer 2.0:
Section I: The author of this post's above attempts at humor should be viewed and/or criticized for its entertainment value only. Hopefully, no one's feelings or facts were injured during the production of this post.
Section II: The author does not claim to speak intelligently or with authority about ANY posted topic. The author further acknowledges that any information presented is an opinion most likely based on incomplete observations and should not, in form or fashion, be treated as NEWS or FACTS of any type. All information should be questioned, ridiculed and/or discarded, as deemed appropiate by the individual reader.

So based on your disclaimer, we should just ignore your posts as "pi##ing in the wind'? You aren't serious and/or mindful about anything posted on here?
Fierce, if you are finding my disclaimer controversial and/or upsetting, I would suggest you ignore my posts altogether. It's not worth the high blood pressure.

Although I have deviated on this CPP ordeal, the disclaimer is a reminder (to myself and others) that this forum stuff is supposed to be fun, non-confrontational and one should make up their own darn mind.

Pack..I did not find your disclaimer controversial and/or upsetting. I found it to be enlightening about you.

As far as being a reminder, I don't think disparaging yourself with a disclaimer creates any fun for most readers. It just makes some think you aren't serious about any post you are writing altogether. It lends less credence to your posts. I happen to think you are trying to be helpful and positive, but your Disclaimer discredits anything you write.

So, in your opinion, most of us would read a post of Pack's and think it helpful and positive, until we get to the obvious attempt at humor in his "disclaimer" and then throw it all out?

You might not find it humorous, that's different for all of us, but it has nothing to do with the value of any of the posts. At least not in my opinion.

Understood. You see it that way. I don't. I think the disclaimer disparaging your opinions that you may post says a lot about those opinions or at least about how the poster sees it. I see it as a comedian mocking eveything. Who finds anything a comedian says worthwhile other than a good laugh? Is that what this forum is for, to have good laughs?

When I read many of these posts, I have trouble looking at them in any other way than to have good laughs. Any chance you're taking all of this a little TOO seriously?

I don't think so. I think I am taking it appropriately. I happen to point out to Pack that his disclaimer puts his/her opinions in a less substantial light is all. Nothing personal to him/her.

by FierceLightning 31/10/14, 11:00 am

Tiki-taka wrote:Man has this thread been HiJacked! I was looking for an all out Sparta versus Sting knockout drag out online sparring match, instead I get jackrabbit is not funny and anything he/she/it posts is garbage and should be dismissed because of his disclaimer. I already knew that!

C'Mon Man! get to the good stuff. I need some treats, it's Halloween for gosh sake!

See now this is EXACTLY and appropriately funny!!! LOL.

by Cmon_Man 31/10/14, 11:37 am

FierceLightning wrote:
Tiki-taka wrote:Man has this thread been HiJacked! I was looking for an all out Sparta versus Sting knockout drag out online sparring match, instead I get jackrabbit is not funny and anything he/she/it posts is garbage and should be dismissed because of his disclaimer. I already knew that!

C'Mon Man! get to the good stuff. I need some treats, it's Halloween for gosh sake!

See now this is EXACTLY and appropriately funny!!! LOL.

The official forum humor police says this is Funny- so everyone you may laugh. Ok stop that's enough...back to beating a dead horse please.

by imjustsayin 31/10/14, 11:59 am

Except that it was Sparta vs Solar...not Sting...Solar being the team with questionable tactics

by dadof3 31/10/14, 12:40 pm

imjustsayin wrote:Except that it was Sparta vs Solar...not Sting...Solar being the team with questionable tactics

While i have no problem with you calling out a particular team or coach for abusing CPP, I think the CPP question is larger than one team, one age or one club. Look over on the 00 CPP thread. It WAS Sting there. Look at the larger picture and realize your allies against CPP and it's abuse are not talking about ONE coach who abuses the system, but the inherent issue that ANY team/club can easily abuse.

The way to change the rule is to recognize the systemic nature of the abuse...and push for change on that level.

And I mean it, though I am a solar parent, if our team were abusing this, I couldn't defend it, nor would I try.

by imjustsayin 31/10/14, 12:54 pm

I was simply speaking of the nature of this particular thread...if you would go back 6 pages, you would see what stemmed this "friendly" debate that we are having...I was merely correcting Tiki-taka when he said he was looking for a Sparta vs Sting sparring match...

by ArnoldZiffel 31/10/14, 01:33 pm

Dumb idea time.
Has LH ever allowed its customers, the player's families, to vote on a rule change?
The ballot could be something like:
1. CPP stands as written. Advantage big clubs passing players up or down as they see fit.
2. CPP is revised to look like the boys' rule. Advantage big clubs, but less so because they cannot pass presumably more talented players down to gain advantage in lower divisions. But big clubs still have a bigger pool of players from which to draw.
3. CPP is not allowed. You play with who you signed last July. This evens things up between big clubs and independents, most of whom only have one team in LH. However the possibility of teams being forced to play shorthanded or forfeitures results due to absence or injuries.

The big clubs would probably win the vote. There are more of them. But at least the process would reveal that the big club families quietly support the rules being slanted to the big clubs' advantage. Maybe I'm too skeptical, and option 2 would win the vote.

by FierceLightning 31/10/14, 03:38 pm

Cmon_Man wrote:
FierceLightning wrote:
Tiki-taka wrote:Man has this thread been HiJacked! I was looking for an all out Sparta versus Sting knockout drag out online sparring match, instead I get jackrabbit is not funny and anything he/she/it posts is garbage and should be dismissed because of his disclaimer. I already knew that!

C'Mon Man! get to the good stuff. I need some treats, it's Halloween for gosh sake!

See now this is EXACTLY and appropriately funny!!! LOL.

The official forum humor police says this is Funny- so everyone you may laugh. Ok stop that's enough...back to beating a dead horse please.

Ok great, now we know that anytime you post it is for comedic reasons only. That's cool, keep it light and give us all a laugh when YOU think we need it.

by Packrabbit 01/11/14, 08:31 am

Tiki-taka wrote:Man has this thread been HiJacked! I was looking for an all out Sparta versus Solar knockout drag out online sparring match, instead I get jackrabbit is not funny and anything he/she/it posts is garbage and should be dismissed because of his disclaimer. I already knew that!

C'Mon Man! get to the good stuff. I need some treats, it's Halloween for gosh sake!

Tiki,

I am shocked, hurt and Sad

and humiliated... you insensitive twit! Is it NOT enough for you, that I just learned that I disparage myself weekly and my posts are mindless and not taken seriously (Side Note: I would like to give a personal 'thank-you' to those who consider my forum attempts helpful and positive Smile

)?! Not funny? Tiki, I don't know who you are anymore.

However, I must draw the line at your implication that I was somehow involved with the hijacking of this thread. I cannot be held responsible for F-Lightning's shameless flirtation and pursuit of me (hey, the chicks dig the ears).

Garbage? REALLY? This 03 group is a tough group... Ballhead, BW were we this obnoxious at U-12?

by Lefty 01/11/14, 09:02 am

Hard Practice wrote:
bwgophers wrote:
gimeemore wrote:"Why aren't we seeing the same first hand accounts from people who's DD's have been benched for CPP players?"

So we have heard from a few that have had playing time effected due to CPP. On the flip side, is there anyone out there brave enough to share their story about their DD playing on another of their club teams on a CPP? Wondering if there is that perspective available.

Where?

Hard practice talked about his DD losing playing time to guest players in academy, not CPP in select. Then he talked about a case where players from his own club didn't get CPP'd to a higher level team, in favor of a guest player (not a CPP player). So again, while they may be similar in nature, and I may be splitting hairs, these are not direct examples of kids in select (where they are bound by contracts vs. the free-for-all-you-can-switch-teams-at-any-time world of academy) losing playing time on their own team, because a CPP player was brought in.

Actually my DD's are both in college now and I said the incident was pre CPP because it (CPP) didn't exist at that time. I have however seen the whole cycle of multiple youth sports from many sides (coach, parent, star, and not a star) and know there are many constants. The most consistant is parents will care about their DD the most. Second is they will want to win. Niether are bad but you just have to be aware of how they bias the opinions they spout. One of the most absolute is some coaches will find a way around rules. For example the only play up was instituted where we are from. Yep, coaches just rostered their dual players to the lower team. You can make it harder to get around for example the best solution is limiting the number of times a player can CPP but they will probably come up with something you never thought of before to skirt that.

Now Packrabbit says that kids from Sting North clearly lost playing time, but he didn't say that his/her kid lost playing time, and also didn't specify if the kids or parents of those kids were markedly upset over the situation, and if so, did they leave the team, or threaten to leave the team as a direct result of this, or, were they totally fine (or even grudgingly fine) with riding the pine in this case because the CPP players were helping to prevent their team from being relegated?

See my comments above about parenst. As long as they are winning and it is not their DD who loses time most are OK with bringing in a ringer. Some will not be crazy about it but few will rock the boat if THEIR kid is happy and the team is winning. Those who are unhappy as others said fear losing all playing time, their daughter being picked on for speaking up and just sit quietly or leave.

The loudest cries about CPP are understandably coming from the parents on the teams that feel that they didn't win a game that they should have, because their opponent brought in ringers via CPP. I would think the second loudest cries would be coming from people who's kids lost playing time due to CPP players coming in, yet it's crickets outside of a bunch of indirect references. Again, I'm curious as to why and would love to hear from some of these people, even if it's by PM. Anonymity fully assured.

If anyone can say in a promotion relegation format bringing in star players creates a fair system you are kidding yourself. Simple mathmatics of minutes says if someone from outside (CPP or otherwise) comes in to play someone else is not (maybe they are hurt or out of town but without a doubt some are sitting on the bench not playing). In my view this is a given whether someone comes on here to talk about it or not.

I also have a couple who have been through the NTX system and agree with the bolded parts above. Most parents only care about coach and club ethics and behavior when it impacts their child negatively.

I also have seen the balance of power dramatically shift toward the clubs from the parents over the last 10-12 years as well. The only real question in my mind is when the clubs will push the envelope far enough to kill their golden goose and start driving kids and parents out of select soccer and start reducing the overall revenue pool.

Don't think parents can really do anything about the CPP rule, as the clubs want it the way it is or it would not be that way today. You can't change what other teams may do, but you can find a team for you DD that does not and will not use it if you want.

by FierceLightning 01/11/14, 12:32 pm

Packrabbit wrote:
Tiki-taka wrote:Man has this thread been HiJacked! I was looking for an all out Sparta versus Solar knockout drag out online sparring match, instead I get jackrabbit is not funny and anything he/she/it posts is garbage and should be dismissed because of his disclaimer. I already knew that!

C'Mon Man! get to the good stuff. I need some treats, it's Halloween for gosh sake!

Tiki, I am shocked, hurt and and humiliated... you insensitive twit! Is it NOT enough for you, that I just learned that I disparage myself weekly and my posts are mindless and not taken seriously (Side Note: I would like to give a personal 'thank-you' to those who consider my forum attempts helpful and positive )?! Not funny? Tiki, I don't know who you are anymore.

However, I must draw the line at your implication that I was somehow involved with the hijacking of this thread. I cannot be held responsible for F-Lightning's shameless flirtation and pursuit of me (hey, the chicks dig the ears).

Garbage? REALLY? This 03 group is a tough group... Ballhead, BW were we this obnoxious at U-12?

Here's the rub Pack....I honestly questioned your input based on your own disclaimer as quoted;

"The author further acknowledges that any information presented is an opinion most likely based on incomplete observations and should not, in form or fashion, be treated as NEWS or FACTS of any type. All information should be questioned, ridiculed and/or discarded, as deemed appropriate by the individual reader."

So when I honestly do what YOU say we should do with your posts, you think I am being obnoxious and demeaning(shameless flirtation and pursuit of me) to you. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just chalk up your defensiveness, paranoia and ad hominens to being a sarcastic comedic expression for all to enjoy. We can all have a good laugh and be glad you are here to provide humor as we discuss this topic with adult peers.

by dadof3 01/11/14, 12:55 pm

If you look at the history of his posts, the feather ruffling and attempts at humor...some better than others, he is consistent. Walks a line that can be offensive sometimes...but if you read deeper, it is fun and sometimes insightful...ok, often less insightful than fun, but life is too short to worry too much. BTW-we were complaining about the coming CPP and ecnl dual rostering two years ago, so most of what we are seeing is rehashed.

Kiss your dd and have fun watching her grow! Vent some, but laugh more.

by angelonmyback 18/11/14, 06:32 pm

I know for a fact this D3 team is bringing in D1 players and still not winning. Very embarrassing for the coach I'm sure! To bad he won't take the time to develope his real players on the team! They set the bench while the D1 guest players play the whole game! Sad!

by Koba 18/11/14, 08:15 pm

Since the league refuses to fix the rule, we have to resort to coach shaming. Sad but the only option available.

by GrandTXSoccer 19/11/14, 09:42 am

It's my understanding that the league realizes their rules are very inconsistent and are looking to make changes with are more in line with the Boys Classic league. Hopefully they will come in the off-season. Just have to find a way to fight through it this year.

by RightWingDad 19/11/14, 09:45 am

Grand, off-season December/January or May/June?

by Coach 19/11/14, 09:57 am

Koba wrote:Since the league refuses to fix the rule, we have to resort to coach shaming. Sad but the only option available.

Coach love D1 player more than D3 player.

by GrandTXSoccer 19/11/14, 10:54 am

My understanding, and it was just in casual conversation, that it wouldn't be until after the full season was over. Who really knows though, they may not change a thing but I do know it's something they are aware needs to be looked at.

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