Why is there No protection given to Keepers anymore

futbollove wrote:

Its Me wrote:On the keeper thing!  Why don't you guys just agree to disagree.  Problem solved!  Yeah! 

Keepers MAY be the toughest kids on the field, but their parents sure are sensitive!!  

+1

Lefty wrote:

futbollove wrote:

Its Me wrote:On the keeper thing!  Why don't you guys just agree to disagree.  Problem solved!  Yeah! 

Keepers MAY be the toughest kids on the field, but their parents sure are sensitive!!  

+1

HEY ...who you calling SENSITIVE......dem ders fight'en wurds!!!!  

I think center mids should be protected! Referees should not allow players to run into them nor tackle them in the center of the field. Lol

There are keeper helmets but my DD refuses to wear now.   She did wear briefly after a bad hit.  Until they are required, I think most players will refuse to wear.

Top keepers need to be as fit as field players and also need to do consistent weight and strength training.  Rarely do you see a top keep who is not weight and height appropriate.  But, they are often larger, bulkier girls.  Just the build.   Top keeps need to be able to sprint, read the entire field, keep their cool when they may need to come out.   They do need to have mojo.  DD keeper coach has taught skills that will hopefully avoid being hurt.

In my DD experience, it is usually when they are playing less skilled teams the rough, possibly intentionally rough play happens.  That is when it is critical the refs keep control of the game.  There have been a few incidents where the refs did not control the game where the game degenerated into turf "warfare".  My DD has received 1 yellow for being stupid and mouthing off to a ref.  Never has rec'd a red.

At a tournament, we were playing a team we weren't supposed to beat.  5 minutes to go and winning by 1-0.  My dd had the ball in her hands, fw highkicked it out of her hands, ball landed on ground and when dd hopped on top of the ball, 2 forwards proceeded to kick her in the head and neck. (Against training, she did dive headfirst onto the ball and did not protect her head.)  DD then dropped the ball and they scored. Nothing called since ref "didn't see it".   DD landed in the ED and doc there said she had the = of a bad mugging.  Meanwhile game tied up and went into PKs with a field player in goal.  Ref insisted they continue play on the othe side of the field while DD had just regained consciousness and was being loaded into the ambulance.  Team lost but many showed up at the ED to be with DD right after the game.

Sadly, nothing new here and nothing to see. Move along now.

Did you just lead in with "Nothing to see here, move along"

And then follow-up with 4 paragraphs???

Zizou wrote:I think center mids should be protected! Referees should not allow players to run into them nor tackle them in the center of the field. Lol

Or to sneak up on them from behind unannounced to steal the ball.

soccersounder wrote:Did you just lead in with "Nothing to see here, move along"

And then follow-up with 4 paragraphs???

Yep, failed attempt at humor. Added to end so makes a little more sense

By the posts I can tell there are allot of parents of non keepers posting. My DD is a keeper and has been for years and has been kicked in the face and mugged on the field. Allot of times by OK teams--they also like to clothesline field players. Only time she came out of a game was with a broken wrist. There needs to be some protection for the keeper. Even in football you can't slam into a defenseless receiver when he is jumping for the ball. It's the same principal. Understand I am not saying can't go for the ball, but many times the aim in not where the ball is or the keeper has the ball and is on the ground. Kicking someone on the ground should be red card and suspension. I feel really bad for the keeper who ended up in the emergancy room and the ref didn't see what put her there.....was he picking his nose or something. His eyes should be where the ball is. The point is this should be fun and competitive but not violent.

We can put all the players in bubble suits. Problem solved!

Great post sideline fan. This topic was what got me to sign up for this forum after lurking for over 4 years. We had a very similar situation to what you describe. A very rough OK team had a forward (who was the biggest player on the field) who was beaten to the ball about 5 times by the GK. Finally after getting beat to the ball yet again she just continued on and IMO intentionally crashed into the GK injuring her arm. Since it was a Championship game the Keeper didn't want to come out and stayed in the game which eventually went to PK's. She went to the Dr. a couple of days after the game and found out her wrist was fractured. I too have seen forwards run her, kick her after she has possession, and knee her in the head. Nothing more than a warning given. I don't think any of these other GK parents are asking for new rules to protect them .... just the referees enforce the rules they have. I think all of the forward parents making derogatory comments would feel a little different if their daughter gets taken out with an intentional flying elbow and nothing is called. Some forwards go out of their way to run a GK long after the ball is in their hands to try to intimidate them. In fact in a game one got so close they stepped on the other keeps ankle hobbling her and nothing was called. Later in the same game the same forward was running at my daughter who raised up toward the forward holding the ball with her elbow out who was given a warning by the referee for her aggressive behavior. If the ref is not going to protect her she is going to protect herself. In college she has been protected better by the referees and for the first time a forward who ran into her was shown a card.

The GK and field player are two different skills and which is the better athlete is debatable. Speed and endurance vs strength and power. My D was recruited in two sports for college so she is athletic. She also has good soccer field player skills but is not especially fast and her asthma hurts her endurance. I know if a field player parent came on and said they were more athletic I would not feel the need to jump into the subject just to disagree. It is surprising how adamant some field parents seem to be about putting down the GK's and their athleticism.

I know no other soccer position requires a player to literally lay their body on the line as part of playing their position. Keepers also have to be more consistant than the field players because every little mistake can be costly. A filed player can miss the net on a shot by 30 feet but a little slip of the ball through the hands can result in a goal. Having watched her in the field and in net I know there is also nothing like the anxiety on the parents when they are in goal vs in the field and I expect the pressure on the player is much the same.

I thought someone should have taken the time to explain to the OP what the call should have been. Basically if the GK misses the ball and takes out the forward in the box it is a PK and most likely a red card. Stopping a clear goal scoring opportunity. However, it is rarely called that way. Usually they give the yellow and the PK. Sometimes they give nothing. If the contact is after a shot the call becomes murkier and most likely nothing is called. If the knee is up or not doesn't really matter. If its their momentum that carries them into the forward it doesn't matter. Is it a harsh penalty compared to what the forward gets for kicking them in the face? Most definitely. In fact my daughters only card while in goal came from just such a situation. Since we had it on video I got to watch it over and over. She came out fast to challenge a breakaway and the forward poked the ball to the side. Since we had it on film I got to watch it over and over. She missed the ball by less than an inch and her body slid into the forward who tried to jump over her and flew up into the air. The referee in an interclub league match pulled out a red card and disqualified her from the game ..... which I am convinced was in part due to the parent who you can hear on the video yelling for a red card on the sideline. Two weeks later in a tournament the GK reaches out and trips her teams forward going by. One of their parents who said he was a long time referee said should have been a red card and PK. What was called? Nothing.

It had been explained Hard Practice but your explanation is appreciated too.

My only problem and where I wish there would be more calls, is when a late run is made. An example, ball is free in the box, gk runs and also forward toward the ball. Gk gets to it first scoops it up an forward still a few feet away continues the run and collides with the gk rather then swerving to avoid collision. This has happened on numerous occasions and no call. Or this, another open ball in box both are goin for it, dd gets there and slides on ball. Forward rather then jump to avoid collision continues in and actually kicks dd in her eye. Dd blind for two weeks and is out for five months with the resulting concussion. No call even though forward was still a couple of feet away and could have jumped over dd still on the ground. Now could have had something to do with it being semis in overtime and we were heading to pk's and the discussion that player just had with her coach on water break but we won't ever know.

Believe it or not my dd doesn't mind the roughness. She actually enjoys the challenge and can take care of herself. You'll see her warn the young lady making the late run to watch herself if she does it again. My problem is having her have that fun but expecting a call when it needs to be made.

I think part of the issue resides with the ref's and their judgement of what a young girl is capable of. They probably hesitate to make calls in this situation due to the fact they think little Suzy couldn't possibly have intent in taking the GK out on a run. And most of the time that is probably accurate. However, a lot of time it is 100% subjective and they will usually revert back to a no call. Right or wrong, it happens.

jsullivan81 wrote:I think part of the issue resides with the ref's and their judgement of what a young girl is capable of. They probably hesitate to make calls in this situation due to the fact they think little Suzy couldn't possibly have intent in taking the GK out on a run. And most of the time that is probably accurate. However, a lot of time it is 100% subjective and they will usually revert back to a no call. Right or wrong, it happens.

Intent has no bearing here - referee makes a decision based on what actually happens and if the act is a foul according to the Laws of the Game. Suzy may not intend to kick the GK's head, but if she does it is a foul.

Deciding that a foul was trifling, e.g., a bump that in no way affects the game or injures the keeper, is within the referee's discretion and may simply warrant a verbal warning with punishment on a repeat occurrence. This requires the ref to be able to read the game.

Reckless and gratuitous acts toward the GK will get a card.

Well Keeper Parents You have to remember alot of the people on this post are Refs and they can never admit when they are wrong. The rest are field players parents who dont understand the position. Just like the ref in the game I wrote this post about. He made the call based on that he felt she lifted her leg too high. He probably doesnt know that she has been taught that by keeper coaches for years. Not many people played the position so they dont understand it and if they are in here 40s and 50s they probably have the same mental pic of the slow fat kid they put in the goal when they where kids. Thats why the say the stupid things they say. Hopeful this post will educate some people there is a lot of great stuff in it. Dont forget we are always outnumbered 11 to 1 so keep posting.

GGoat wrote:Well Keeper Parents You have to remember alot of the people on this post are Refs and they can never admit when they are wrong.

We get it already. Refs are stupid and the cause of most problems. All the refs have told you their opinions on your situation and you have even offered another place where everyone can go and ask national referees questions. Here it is again: http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/

Please take a moment to watch this:

GGoat wrote:Well Keeper Parents You have to remember alot of the people on this post are Refs and they can never admit when they are wrong. The rest are field players parents who dont understand the position. Just like the ref in the game I wrote this post about. He made the call based on that he felt she lifted her leg too high. He probably doesnt know that she has been taught that by keeper coaches for years. Not many people played the position so they dont understand it and if they are in here 40s and 50s they probably have the same mental pic of the slow fat kid they put in the goal when they where kids. Thats why the say the stupid things they say. Hopeful this post will educate some people there is a lot of great stuff in it. Dont forget we are always outnumbered 11 to 1 so keep posting.

Do you routinely try and play the 'victim card' in all aspects of life?

Not exactly the best example for your DD.

GGoat wrote:Well Keeper Parents You have to remember alot of the people on this post are Refs and they can never admit when they are wrong. The rest are field players parents who dont understand the position. Just like the ref in the game I wrote this post about. He made the call based on that he felt she lifted her leg too high. He probably doesnt know that she has been taught that by keeper coaches for years. Not many people played the position so they dont understand it and if they are in here 40s and 50s they probably have the same mental pic of the slow fat kid they put in the goal when they where kids. Thats why the say the stupid things they say. Hopeful this post will educate some people there is a lot of great stuff in it. Dont forget we are always outnumbered 11 to 1 so keep posting.

GGoat, I see that you're the type of parent that is exactly like the parent "Ref" showed in the video.  I have no problem explain to a parent or coach the things I was looking at during a particular call they may question.  Was my call right or wrong?  I have to go with what I think at the time and with the split second based on the laws.  Have I missed calls, yes.  I've even told players on the field.  Hey I'm sorry I missed that.  I'll watch it the next time.  We're only human and unlike you we're not perfect.  We don't have instant replay as they do in the NFL, NBA, or MLB.  And I can't look over at the parents and say which kid kicked that ball out when it deflects off of five girls in a pack.  You make your call and you stand by it.  Unfortunately, it life.  You try to do better the next time or learn how to get in a better position.  I see that you have your opinion and you're standing by it. So your purpose wasn't to get insight on the calls being made but its was just to see how many people complain and agree with you.

I'll say yes my decisions on 50/50 ball will change depending on Rec, Plano, Lake Highlands, and even ECNL. The lower the level the less likely the card.  However, ECNL players are not as clumsy as Plano players so I know they know when to pull out of a challenge.  Two Plano kids, I'm more than likely to talk to them unless I think the intent was intentional.  Yes, it's subjective.

What's really cool about doing ENCL games, the players know what they're doing and you have less fouls. And the parents just sit there and don't say a word and seem to understand the game better. To be honest, it's the strangest thing. You're expecting the parents to start screaming from a challenge and they're cool with the decision.

I love refereeing soccer and have "never" thrown a parent or coach out of a game.  And I've ref thousands of games.
However, I really dislike parents like you that have NO idea but want to just complain.  But it's your opinion.  

I'm finished with this topic.

5 page thread of fame, much longer than 5 minutes of fame!

Its Me...great post.  I do not ref soccer but have been a football official for about to be my 17th year.  Do I yell at soccer refs sometimes...of course.  Try not to though.  But competitiveness gets the better of me.  One point that I think should be considered.  I doubt many, if any, professional or World Cup level officials are working LH, Plano, Arlington, or even ECNL games very often.  As in football, the level of officiating will generally increase with the level of the league and age.  For instance, anything below a High School varsity football game is going to get a large variety of officials.  Some with lots of experience, some without.  Even different levels of Varsity sees a difference in the level of officials.  So, to expect a perfectly officiated game at any level of select is adsurd.  Some will be good, some will not.  The officials are all human, have different interpretations, etc..  Some have chips on their shoulders, some do not want to get noticed unless necessary (generally the best kind).  I doubt these refs are getting paid a lot.  It is generally a paid hobby that they enjoy.  If you want extreme high level officiating at all levels than the refs will have to quit their real jobs and get paid handsomely.  That, of course, is unnecessary and unrealistic.  And for all those that find it real easy to crucify refs, go try it yourself and see how thick your skin is.  Honestly, I would have no problem running parents from the field if they do not get the message.  Have only done that twice in my officiating career...and both were 8th grade level and below.

Once you take your actions outside the field of play rarely does your situation get better. Speak with the coach about his sidelines allow him to do your outside the lines work, seems to be more effective, especially when he will be the one leaving. My opinion!

Its Me wrote:

GGoat wrote:Well Keeper Parents You have to remember alot of the people on this post are Refs and they can never admit when they are wrong. The rest are field players parents who dont understand the position. Just like the ref in the game I wrote this post about. He made the call based on that he felt she lifted her leg too high. He probably doesnt know that she has been taught that by keeper coaches for years. Not many people played the position so they dont understand it and if they are in here 40s and 50s they probably have the same mental pic of the slow fat kid they put in the goal when they where kids. Thats why the say the stupid things they say. Hopeful this post will educate some people there is a lot of great stuff in it. Dont forget we are always outnumbered 11 to 1 so keep posting.

GGoat, I see that you're the type of parent that is exactly like the parent "Ref" showed in the video.  I have no problem explain to a parent or coach the things I was looking at during a particular call they may question.  Was my call right or wrong?  I have to go with what I think at the time and with the split second based on the laws.  Have I missed calls, yes.  I've even told players on the field.  Hey I'm sorry I missed that.  I'll watch it the next time.  We're only human and unlike you we're not perfect.  We don't have instant replay as they do in the NFL, NBA, or MLB.  And I can't look over at the parents and say which kid kicked that ball out when it deflects off of five girls in a pack.  You make your call and you stand by it.  Unfortunately, it life.  You try to do better the next time or learn how to get in a better position.  I see that you have your opinion and you're standing by it. So your purpose wasn't to get insight on the calls being made but its was just to see how many people complain and agree with you.

I'll say yes my decisions on 50/50 ball will change depending on Rec, Plano, Lake Highlands, and even ECNL. The lower the level the less likely the card.  However, ECNL players are not as clumsy as Plano players so I know they know when to pull out of a challenge.  Two Plano kids, I'm more than likely to talk to them unless I think the intent was intentional.  Yes, it's subjective.

What's really cool about doing ENCL games, the players know what they're doing and you have less fouls.  And the parents just sit there and don't say a word and seem to understand the game better.  To be honest, it's the strangest thing.  You're expecting the parents to start screaming from a challenge and they're cool with the decision.

I love refereeing soccer and have "never" thrown a parent or coach out of a game.  And I've ref thousands of games.
However, I really dislike parents like you that have NO idea but want to just complain.  But it's your opinion.  

I'm finished with this topic.

Have no idea what you accuracy level on calls is, but would love for you to do all of my DD's games just based on the bolded items.

You are right Lefty. Some refs simply are not good at it and should not be out there. I don't care how much you enjoy doing it or think you are helping the soccer community by being out there. If you make numerous bad calls and do a bad job, you should find another hobby. And no, I don't want to do it myself. There are plenty of good refs so let them do the job and get the bad ones out of there. It is a hard thing to do and some people are not cut out for it.

Unicorns wrote:You are right Lefty.  Some refs simply are not good at it and should not be out there.  I don't care how much you enjoy doing it or think you are helping the soccer community by being out there.  If you make numerous bad calls and do a bad job, you should find another hobby.  And no, I don't want to do it myself.  There are plenty of good refs so let them do the job and get the bad ones out of there.  It is a hard thing to do and some people are not cut out for it.  

You missed my point.

Based on attitude and approach alone, I would be tolerant of a lot of missed calls by this ref and not say a word.

You all are correct...officiating sports not for anyone. However, in most sports, there is a shortage of officials. Retention rates are not good. And, there are those that do it strictly for extra cash and really care about doing the minimum to maintain their eligibilty to officiate. Unfortunately, sometimes you need those just to fill games and ensure there is a ref. The good ones are in high demand but most if not all have lives outside their sport and do not care to spend all their free time officiating. Also, in times of poor economy, you will see an influx of officials. But, a lot are doing it then just to make ends meet.

Ok, here 's a thought for you. Reduce the number of league games. This will allow your more qualified refs to make more money and call most the games. We put way to much emphasis on the number of league games played. Coverage for all those games leaves our referees way to spread out.

Lefty, over coach and its me you all make these assumption that are so wrong. I totally agree with the video. I never yell at the refs. It is about the stupidest thing anyone can do. My oldest dd told me a long time ago she was playing and we were yelling at the ref and he totally let us have it.He gave 3 free kicks in row until they scored and called then game 1 0. My dd said dad what do you expect hes an 18 year old kid with power what do you think he would do if a bunch of 40 year old men are yelling at him. Yall screwed us not the ref. She was about 10 at the time and so smart I might add. I know refs dont get paid much either so thats why if its hot ill give them a water bottle or offer an umbrella at half. Iv done it many times for many years. Yelling at the refs will not work they will not change their mind and can not admit when they are wrong its part of the job. The assumption of people on this post like keepers are wimpy and not good athletes and I yell at the refs just make you look bad. We all know the old sayings about assuption